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Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

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Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#521

Post by zelphirkalt »

skavi wrote: post #467
zelphirkalt wrote: post #465

Hmpf. I am using uv now, but I have been doing fine before using poetry. For me it is not a huge revolution, as I always value reproducibility, which means lock file and checksums, and that, I was able to have before using poetry. Yes, yes, ... uv is faster. I grant them that. And yes, it's pleasant, when it runs so quickly. But I am not changing dependencies that often, that this really impacts my productivity. A ve…

poetry was incredibly slow and flaky in my experience.

I've used it in various work projects/services, and in my free time in various projects. Never had anything "flaky" about it happening. Care to elaborate what you mean by that?

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#522

Post by stavros »

doright wrote: post #512
hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

Why did it take this long? Why did so many prior solutions ultimately fall flat after years and years of attempts? Was Python package/environment management such a hard problem that only VC money could have fixed it?

It didn't, though? Poetry was largely fine, it's just that uv is so much faster. I don't think uv is that much different from Poetry in the day-to-day dependency management, I'm sure there are some slight differences, but Poetry also brought all the modern stuff we expected out of a package manager.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#523

Post by zamalek »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

I would dread cloning a python project more than I would C++, and was the sole purpose I made real effort to avoid the language entirely.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#524

Post by tiagod »

pama wrote: post #160

I love uv. But the post starts with a simple install using a oneliner curl piping to sh, which is such a big attack surface area… I would much rather have a much longer one liner that increases safety.

What's the difference from going to the website and downloading it, or doing it through the package manager?

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#525

Post by tclancy »

tehnub wrote: post #491

Before uv, I was fairly happy with pyenv + venv + pip for development and pipx for running "tools". IMO, the specific things uv improves upon are: - Faster dependency resolution. In fact, everything uv does is extremely fast. - Better ergonomics in a dozen ways (`uv run` instead of activating the virtual env, support for script metadata to run scripts with dependencies, uv add to modify the pyproject.toml (that it cr…

The speed thing can’t be overstated. At first I thought it wasn’t actually running for some things.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#526

Post by adastra22 »

ederamen wrote: post #517

Uv is so good. I'm a curmudgeon about adopting new tooling, and tried uv with a lot of skepticism, but it was just better in every way. And even if it wasn't so polished and reliable, the raw speed makes it hard to go back to any other tool. Uv combined with type hints reaching critical mass in the Python ecosystem, and how solid PyLance is in VSCode, feels so good it has made me consider investing in Python as my pr…

[flagged]

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#527

Post by peterfirefly »

lacker wrote: post #364
caconym_ wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing I dread more within the general context of software development, broadly , than trying to run other people's Python projects. Nothing. It's shocking that it has been so bad for so long.

The only thing I dreaded more was trying to run other people's C++ projects.

vcpkg seems to help a lot there, at least for Windows code and msbuild/Visual Studio.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#528

Post by zelphirkalt »

From the article:

> uv is an incredibly powerful simplification for us that we use across our entire tech stack. As developers, we can all work with identical Python installations, which is especially important given a number of semi-experimental dependencies that we use that have breaking changes with every version. On GitHub Actions, we’re planning to use uv to quickly build a Python environment and run our unit tests. In production, uv already manages Python for all of our servers.

> It’s just so nice to always know that Python and package installation will always be handled consistently and correctly across all of our machines. That’s why uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade.

I can only conclude, that the author of the article, and perhaps even the organization they work in, is unaware of other tools that did the job long before uv. If they really value reproducibility that much, how come they didn't look into the matter before? Things much have been really hastily stitched together, if no one ever looked at existing tooling before, and only now they make things reproducible.

I guess reproducibility is still very much a huge problem, especially in jobs, where it should be one of the most important things to take care of: Research. ("Astronomer & Science Communicator" it says on the website). My recommendation is: Get an actual software developer (at least mid-level) to support your research team. A capable and responsibly acting developer would have sorted this problem out right from the beginning.

I am glad they improved their project setups to the level they should be at, if they want to call it research.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#529

Post by rayxi271828 »

I love how uv allows me to not think of all the options anymore.

virtualenv, venv, pyenv, pipenv... I think at one point the recommended option changed because it was integrated into Python, but I can't even remember which is which anymore.

Such a pleasure to finally have just one, for maybe... ~99% of my needs.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#530

Post by dataflow »

caconym_ wrote: post #227
hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

There is nothing I dread more within the general context of software development, broadly , than trying to run other people's Python projects. Nothing. It's shocking that it has been so bad for so long.

Not even trying to compile build other people's C/C++ projects on *nix?
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