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What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

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Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#521

Post by mechanicalpulse »

palata wrote: post #500
godelski wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Back when it came on physical media, it was very much finished. That's also not true and I think you're not reading my point fairly. Back when software came on physical media we still had patches. We had patches that came through the internet and we had patches that came through physical media. The latter making it harder to patch. It's a great situation when a bug is discovered and it is hard to patch. You're fant…

> Back when software came on physical media we still had patches. We had patches that came through the internet and we had patches that came through physical media. Did you live at a time where Internet was not a thing? I remember very clearly buying software on physical media and never, ever "receiving" a single patch. I don't even know how that would have looked... "buy this floppy disk, it's a patch for a bug in t…

> Did you live at a time where Internet was not a thing?

You must be relatively young. Software existed before the widespread adoption of the Internet.

> I remember very clearly buying software on physical media and never, ever "receiving" a single patch.

You had to take action to receive them. They weren’t automatic updates like they are today.

> I don't even know how that would have looked... "buy this floppy disk, it's a patch for a bug in the other floppy disk you bought recently"?

That’s exactly what it looked like. That’s still the process today for some systems —- avionics updates for Boeing 747s are provided on 3.5” floppies.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#522

Post by le-mark »

blackcatsec wrote: post #487
blackcatsec wrote: post #483

I think one thing the internet community, particularly the likes of folks here who dominate the HN readership, is to stop listening to Google or using Google-derived services. The problem is everyone goggles Google's googleys every time they put something out: Chrome, Android, Kubernetes, QUIC, BBR, Analytics, Gmail, GCP, Go. And y'all continue to fucking do it. I can't even go into my workplace and get the company t…

Nah screw it, it's late and I'm unable to sleep and gonna rant a little more. Microsoft made changes to force consumer users to create Microsoft accounts to login to their PCs and you can go on Youtube and see 500 videos on how to use some bespoke tool to bypass this that has racked up thousands of views because some 'nerd' who literally walks around with a Macbook and an iPhone told them that it's the most evil thin…

Nice rant, I’m here for it. This is what I miss from the early internet, a good old fashioned rant. It may go off the rails from time to time, but consistent in its frustration.

Note some companies give Mac books with admin, smaller companies though. It can be a real shock to go to a large company and get a locked down windows machine. What the boss can now see how much time I really spend working!?!

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#523

Post by vladms »

kuhsaft wrote: post #473
vladms wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pirating is more of a problem of mismanaged price versus revenues. In the '90 in East Europe everybody was pirating because we couldn't afford any software not because "we wanted to steal". As soon as I got a decent salary I just bought the damn stuff and spared me of the headache of dealing with pirated things. The people pushing for drastic technical measures to "prevent pirating" are probably accountants, that hav…

> spared me of the headache of dealing with pirated things Without any sort of DRM and today's internet speeds, pirating digital media would probably be like Napster Greenheart Games famously purposely released a different version of Game Dev Tycoon for pirating. You can read the blog post here: https://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/04/29/what-happens-when...

Most of the software I use depend on centralized functionality. Example: convenient online invitation, sharing of resources and integrations (for productivity), accomplishments, ladders and updates (for games).

For music media, there are a lot of people (67%) using streaming (random source: https://ifpi-website-cms.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/IFPI_GMR...) which is a totally different service than having a list of songs on your device then struggling with organizing/synchronizing/keeping up to date.

Media and software do not "work" like physical goods. Value should be extracted from them but a lot of earth population is poor and could still "use" the media/software (example: 57% of world population has less than 10$ income per day source: https://www.gapminder.org/tools/#$model$markers$mountain$enc...)

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#524

Post by cyanydeez »

gdulli wrote: post #250
cyanydeez wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see googles actions as lashing out at everyone because theyre being attacked for their monopoly activities. They want to punish customers for electing regulators who care about consumer protections. This is large scale abusive boyfriend behavior, doubling down. Anyone who defends google/Android has been heeled in fear.

There's no spite or emotion, it's a company. They want to kill NewPipe etc. to force everything through apps they control and can monetize. It's just about money.

Yes, there is. The people who got rich absolutely think they deserve it all.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#525

Post by fsflover »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #515
fsflover wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Librem 5 is in stock, and it's my daily driver. These phones are niche, because in discussion like this one, everyone is constantly saying that it's impossible to escape the duopoly and we're doomed.

these phone is not niche because they are niche, but because they are sucks if there are alternative that magically better than Google/Apple ecosystem. people would instantly switch You don't need told people to switch, just need to prove it

They're not comparable to an iPhone but good enough to be a daily driver for technical people like the HN audience. Yet the latter never even mentions it saying there are no options, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45589096

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#526

Post by BlackFly »

blackcatsec wrote: post #487
blackcatsec wrote: post #483

I think one thing the internet community, particularly the likes of folks here who dominate the HN readership, is to stop listening to Google or using Google-derived services. The problem is everyone goggles Google's googleys every time they put something out: Chrome, Android, Kubernetes, QUIC, BBR, Analytics, Gmail, GCP, Go. And y'all continue to fucking do it. I can't even go into my workplace and get the company t…

Nah screw it, it's late and I'm unable to sleep and gonna rant a little more. Microsoft made changes to force consumer users to create Microsoft accounts to login to their PCs and you can go on Youtube and see 500 videos on how to use some bespoke tool to bypass this that has racked up thousands of views because some 'nerd' who literally walks around with a Macbook and an iPhone told them that it's the most evil thin…

DMA in Europe required Microsoft to enable offline accounts without special tricks. When a government is doing their job properly they patch up holes in the laws that allow behavior that the majority consider to be against the prevailing norms.

You can also uninstall Edge and all the other Microsoft bloatware. Google on Android is actually one of the worse offenders in Europe for not being able to uninstall software as they consider far too many things to be critical to the operating system (for example, search).

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#527

Post by e12e »

bane wrote: post #349

I'm struck with how long the history of Apple's earliest iPhone has shaped and produced long-term damage to the concept of digital ownership. Apple originally didn't allow anybody but Apple to create software for the 1st gen iPhone, and only later was forced "opening" it my market forces. People who realized they actually owned the thing they bought wanted to do what they wanted, which required circumventing Apple's…

I don't know - the iPhone came with some "bundled" native apps like Safari and Mail - and webapp support. Apple later changed this - but in some ways the iPhone 1 was more open - in the sense that all third party apps were just webapps.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#528

Post by clapathy »

The reason why its happening is that most people don't care and don't need that freedom.

Otherwise they wouldn't buy android devices, right? Thats how freemarket works.

Its much easier for people to give away their freedom to install any software on their device in exchange of not learning all the intricacies of information security and privacy.

EVerybody still can install non native os on their device and use any store they want, right? Or fork android and maintain the OS that allows installing software from other sources.

Its just people don't really care - google is not non profit - its doing business for people who pay money and care more about passing the security reaponsibility on the manufacturer, thats why Apple thrives and nobody cares that you have to use their store only, only minority of people who are not an interesting market

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#529

Post by wkat4242 »

unscaled wrote: post #356
wkat4242 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could make a glossy PC client around it. On the meta quest there's an app called SideQuest that does just that because meta doesn't permit apps to install other apps. It's still a fairly big thing there.

I'm happy about the adb loophole, but I'm worried this would be just the start of the slippery slope, and Google would find a way to lock down adb next, citing the risk of malware sideloaded by fancy tools wrapping adb, once they start popping up.

True though I don't believe Google's goal is truly security here. I think it's more an excuse and the real reason is tightening control.

Re: What we talk about when we talk about sideloading

#530

Post by L_226 »

bane wrote: post #349

I'm struck with how long the history of Apple's earliest iPhone has shaped and produced long-term damage to the concept of digital ownership. Apple originally didn't allow anybody but Apple to create software for the 1st gen iPhone, and only later was forced "opening" it my market forces. People who realized they actually owned the thing they bought wanted to do what they wanted, which required circumventing Apple's…

> The fact that mobile phones aren't yet just a standard type of portable computer with an open-ish harware/driver ecosystem that anybody can just make an OS for (and hence allow anybody to just install what they want) is kind of wild IMHO.

It's because the "killer app" of phones is that they are a phone, aka a remote communications tool that relies on a subscription payment to access someone else's infrastructure. People don't care that phones are not general purpose platforms, because the point of having a phone is to communicate with others, which currently requires paying for that privilege.

If you didn't have to pay for access to a network, and the phone still worked as a phone, then you might see a change.

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