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Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

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Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#521

Post by abustamam »

AQuantized wrote: post #92
lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

> You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you. This seems like such an absurd conclusion to this, as though the opinions of other people of you are what matter when you functionally lose your personhood and then die. Maybe a better focus would be that there often isn't a good way for a community to manage a person who suddenly becomes irrational because…

My wife's grandma passed some years back due to dementia/Alzheimers. Her final memories of her were of struggling to change her diaper because she insisted "she didn't need a change" and being really racist.

I really don't want my family's last memories of me to be that. Yeah my wife remembers when her grandma was of sound mind, and has some good memories with her back then, but they stopped due to the disease.

Everyone should be entitled to their own opinions on how they want to be remembered. I would rather be allowed to pass in sane mind.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#522

Post by err4nt »

lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I see that the man was Israeli in the original story and I don't want to presume a religious perspective, but I can share some thoughts from my own based on his story and yours. I've read the New Testament within a Jewish framework and one of the things it says, Rabbi Shaul says in 1 Corinthians 12:23 that those people in the community who are most embarrassing or cause us to blush, like the parts of our own body who are honoured or dignified by being clothed with underwear, likewise in the community are owed a special covering and to be afforded dignity by the other parts of the same body/community. Just something to think about in light of this story!

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#523

Post by squigz »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #374

I’m young, but I’m at the age where I’ve seen many grandparents pass away and I must say, I support assisted suicide. The helplessness of the last stretch of your life, something that can last a couple of years, where you often need to help to even stand, doesn’t seem like a period of time worth living. Further modern medicines, in my opinion insane focus on extending life of the very old, compounds this situation to…

Starving to death in the forest is probably not very dignified, I gotta say.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#524

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

Noaidi wrote: post #519
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it “greedy”? I consider greediness as hoarding resources more than you need thst could help someone else. You are not being greedy for refusing to suffer especially when you don’t have any dependents.

Yes, you’re right which is why I said greedy almost. I think there are some aspect of him wanting more than he’s deserved. Like wanting a life that ends perfectly while everyone else’s life has to go on with their suffering. But I think it is just generally selfish what he did.

Again being “selfish” is just restating the same. How is he withholding anything from anyone else by his decision.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#525

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

Noaidi wrote: post #520
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s your personal choice. No one is advocating killing people who don’t have the mental capacity to decide.

The action by the man in the original article is advocating for the killing of oneself. His advice is to avoid suffering it is best to kill yourself. Approving of that message is advocating for death over suffering and that’s just something I disagree with. It is my personal choice, but his personal choice has an impact on society so it’s not really a personal choice. If we find it acceptable for people to kill thems…

How did his choice impact anyone else besides people who cared about him? Society is not harmed by people not wanting to endure suffering if he isn’t leaving dependent children or a disabled spouse. Why should he be forced to suffer because someone else is uncomfortable?

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#526

Post by Aeolun »

Noaidi wrote: post #171
AQuantized wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you. This seems like such an absurd conclusion to this, as though the opinions of other people of you are what matter when you functionally lose your personhood and then die. Maybe a better focus would be that there often isn't a good way for a community to manage a person who suddenly becomes irrational because…

My brother had schizophrenia. No one thought well of him. I guess he should have killed himself as well by the logic some are professing on here. Oh, he tried, but he ended up dying of heart disease. > Maybe a better focus would be that there often isn't a good way for a community to manage a person who suddenly becomes irrational because of an illness. Yes, this is the focus. Science has stalled when it comes to neu…

> I do not understand how someone would "sour" on a person because they have an illness.

It is extremely exhausting to try and be ‘understanding’ of someone that does everything to sabotage themselves.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#527

Post by SJC_Hacker »

Davidzheng wrote: post #367
voakbasda wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why there should be more nuance to the issue: legalizing suicide is not the same as legalizing assisted suicide. I want to be free to die on my own terms. Conversely, I do not want the healthcare system to be allowed to even suggest it.

suicide already is legal -> if you succeed there's no one to prosecute so the question is just absurd. One can only discuss legality of attempted suicide.

True, but the methods are quite gruesome.

The state tends to suppress methods which would be peaceful and effective, Such as Nembutal

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#528

Post by lazyasciiart »

Noaidi wrote: post #506
robotresearcher wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord, we have very different interpretations of ‘burden’. I had healthy, happy, typical children that I loved to bits and they were absolutely a burden! Some days I could barely deal. Acknowledging that the things you love are a huge pain in the ass sometimes and keeping on loving them is perfectly healthy.

A burden is a heavy load. The stronger you are the less things are a burden to you. In this case, if you are more spiritually strong you are, the fewer burdens you will have.

Spiritual strength is the ability to be a smug jerk to others because you think you’re better than them. It certainly is a coping mechanism for some people, but it’s hardly one that should be encouraged.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#529

Post by lazyasciiart »

philipkglass wrote: post #324
ChromaticPanic wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we pretending opioids do not exist in nature? What's next, how did people hallucinate before LSD?

Before the early modern period, large portions of the world did not have any wild or cultivated opium poppies or any other strong painkillers.

Jainism developed in India which did have access to these. Regardless, until the early modern period painkillers and other medical treatment was blanket disapproved of as it was considered likely to be damaging some part of the body. (My non-expert understanding).

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#530

Post by lazyasciiart »

rkomorn wrote: post #316
voakbasda wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With suicide being illegal in most jurisdictions, not everyone interviewed may have been honest in relating their feelings. If you have suicidal ideations, telling others about them can have severely negative consequences. Saying “I wish it had worked” would likely create ongoing jeopardy.

I'm sorry but this feels kind of specious. Especially if the person has already admitted to trying to commit suicide (which they presumably did considering the context from parent comment).

No, it isn’t. People who have attempted suicide are often very closely monitored by family/caregivers/medical professionals for whether they are going to attempt again, for years, and can be subject to significant constraints if they give any indications that they are thinking that way.
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