Live data from Hacker News

US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

travelandtourworld.com

521–530 of 678 posts

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#521
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a search just now, Delta Main r/t from ATL-LAX is $337. Delta Comfort on the same flight is $727. (Yes, it's more than 2x the price.) Obviously Comfort boards earlier, but it's not unreasonable to attribute most of the fare differential to the legroom. Checked bags are also extra for either seat.

Don’t forget they give you all the 10¢ bags of sun chips you can eat.

Recently I had received a mini packet of crisps that had four in it.

Four

How is that even worth the packaging cost

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#522

i’m hard-pressed to think of an industry whose financial principles i’m more skeptical of than the airline industry. post-9/11 the industry cratered and they said they needed to add fees to keep from going bankrupt. united created ted, their own low-cost no-frills carrier which was actually decent. once air travel recovered, they (airlines, in general) kept the fees and have been turning record profits ever since. un…

Looking at the numbers, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines#Business_trend... United had their highest revenue in 2024, and their profit margin was... 5.5%. Would reducing your ticket price by 5.5% make any difference?

also, don’t forget (well known fact) that passengers paying for premium economy and business class seats are the most profitable for the airlines - by far. Aside from profits from credit card rewards programs.

so the profit margin on economy tickets is likely even smaller than 5.5%!

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't really both-sides this argument or say that the right-wing are the champions of free and fair elections. Those are like two opposite statements, and I think you missed the whole point of my comment. You think you're in some noble partisan fight where your side are the good guys. In reality both sides work closely together to maximally fuck you over, while your cheer one of them on for some reason.

No, I'm far too cynical to believe that anyone has my interests at heart. But I will acknowledge one side as being openly anti-democratic while the other is merely spineless in the face of opposition. My opening statement being contradictory was, admittedly, my fault. I couldn't tell if you were trying to champion the right wing or if you were trying to build a both-sides argument, so I tried to cover both bases. And…

Both parties are very openly very anti-democratic and very corrupt. They openly sabotage and attack their own candidates if they don't fall in line (Bernie Sanders is one of MANY examples). They are pretty openly corrupt (look at Biden and family, look at all of the insider trading, etc), and pretty openly serve special/corporate interests like the military industrial complex. They constantly lie and try to misinform voters - which so very anti-democratic.

If you think one side is not anti-democratic, all that means is that you drank too much side-favoured coolaid.

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#524
post #46
post #17

> [Elimination of] Automatic Refunds for Cancellations Does this mean when the passenger cancels or when the airline cancels? If it’s when the passenger chooses to cancel, this seems fine and fair: he paid for a flight; he chose not to take it. If it’s the latter, then it seems very unfair. > Transparency of Fees This seems patently unfair. Folks should know what they’re going to be paying ahead of time. > Family Sea…

> If you want to sit together, pay for that privilege This is evil. There is no cost to the airline to put people who booked together next to another. It's seems like Mafia-tactic to seat people apart from another unless they pony up another $500 in upgrades. I refuse to fly with United. I understand that there may not be 10 adjacent seats when flying with a big group, but spreading out a family on purpose just so yo…

> This is evil. There is no cost to the airline to put people who booked together next to another. It's seems like Mafia-tactic to seat people apart from another unless they pony up another $500 in upgrades.

The idea is that an airplane needs a certain revenue to run. Suppose it's 10k, and there are 100 passengers. Each passenger thereby pays $100.

However, some passengers (A) wish to sit in a big seat and are willing to pay for it, and others (B) don't care about seat size and are willing to give-up space for a cheaper ticket.

As such, 1 Passenger A may want to pay $250 instead to get a 30% bigger seat, while 3 passengers B give up 10% of their seat size and pay a $50 ticket. The airplane still collects $400 from 4 passengers as before, but the passengers are happier now. They have traded their individual desires, for something less valuable. A desired a bigger seat and thought $150 extra was less valuable than this bigger seat. B desired a $50 cheaper ticket and thought the smaller seat was less valuable. They traded and became happier.

You may say but nah, airlines will simply charge for bigger seats and keep the smaller seats the same price. But they don't, because they must compete with other airlines that don't. If they could do this they would've already.

For seat picking it's the same thing. A prefers to pay to sit close to a friend or partner. B doesn't care and prefers a cheaper ticket. Thus A pays a bit more, B pays a bit less.

I've always had to pay for seating as long as I can remember, I never cared enough (except long international flights), so I enjoy slightly cheaper prices than a world where there was no choice. It's not as evil as it may seem at first glance.

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, they're not likely to just refuse any kind of recompense. More likely: * Giving a credit instead of a refund. * Offer a take-it-or-leave-it alternative flight. * Only giving out credit/refund on request (so people that don't realize or do it in time loose their money).

a credit instead of a refund is almost the same thing as not offering a refund. you're going to have a hard time using that refund in a manner that benefits you (not taking a flight for no reason)

Yep. I don't fly a ton, but I had a flight canceled by Alaska a couple of years ago. They refunded me so I wasn't actually out anything, but they also gave me a $100 credit in addition to the refund. I really tried, but since I don't live in Seattle and don't fly much, there was no way I could use that $100 credit without paying a whole lot of my own money too. It annoyed me to "throw away money", but the credit expired unused.

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#526
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember, children as young as five can fly with out a parent/guardian (in the US, per AA website). So that could happen without change to regulations.

The crew is aware of all the unaccompanied minors on a flight.

Is that a meaningful distinction, though? "Aware of" != "Actively supervising". I guess it's easier to page a flight attendant than find a parent seated elsewhere, but neither can provide active supervision.

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#527
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment: I could imagine airlines wanting to not allow for a full refund if passengers can be booked on a "reasonably similar" connection. (I've done this myself in the past, as far as I remember; changes of a few minutes in either direction often make an entire booking refundable.) The problem here of course would be the definition of "reasonably similar". Arriving a few hours later can…

I don't follow the point. Suppose we live in a perfect world where exactly similar alternative flights are always available the moment yours gets cancelled. You still have to pay for it. And you do that by using the refund money. Cancelling a flight without refunding it, just means profiting at the expense of the customer. Businesses are able to insure their limited cost of cancellations, and price their tickets to a…

> You still have to pay for it. And you do that by using the refund money.

You generally don't though? The airline will rebook you directly, even if the flight is on a different airline in my experience.

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#528
post #318

> Airlines want to remove the requirement to provide automatic refunds when flights are cancelled or significantly altered. This is wild. Are they really asking to be able to take money for a flight, then cacel it and keep the money? That's crazy.

I don't think that is going to happen. Before this new-ish regulation, the airline had discretion over how to rebook you or compensate you. Now if the delay is over 3h (iirc) they have to refund you. I think even an arbitration court would have them reimburse you if they simply canceled a flight and kept your money.

And what percentage of people will take them to court just to get them to refund their ticket?

Airlines have full time lawyers with nothing to do but push paper around.

Why are we making it harder for the consumer to resolve an issue when the flight is clearly cancelled?

They just want to force you into weird store-credit style refunds so that you cannot go to a competitor or choose not to travel.

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#529
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't want to play the devils advocate... but if you _must_ sit next to a person in need... you have to reserve the seats. Doesn't matter if it's a child, a dependent parent or a colleague that you need to run through an upcoming presentation with. Currently, it's just the case that parents get a discount on the seat reservation fee.

> must reserve With the current implementation exposed to the end customer, yes, that's required. Reserving specific seats isn't fundamental to the constraint that some people want to sit together. Plus, the current reservation system is predatory in its own right. When booking you're dumped into a page strongly suggesting you must choose a seat, and all available options cost more than the base ticket.

Well, any half decent operator will put you next to each other and the other half at least lets you select seats during the check-in process. If that 90% certainty is not enough for you... just reserve the seats. Yes, it'll cost money, because otherwise there won't be any seats to reserve as anyone will do it.

Re: US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

#530
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with both these points, though I'm much more willing to check a bag when traveling on vacation than when traveling on business. If I were to lose a bag on vacation there wouldn't be the same consequences. On vacation I don't have my work laptop, so it's easier to toss toiletries and an emergency change of clothes in a small under-seat carry-on bag. Besides, tourists aren't expected to smell nice and look put-…

>If I were to lose a bag on vacation there wouldn't be the same consequences. Not that taking everything carryon was really an option in this case, but I had a bag misplaced after a connecting flight was canceled. This was a group hiking trip but I had at least an extra day scheduled. Still spent about $500 to minimally restock although my bag arrived at literally the last minute before one of the guides left the hot…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN