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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#521

Post by snickerdoodle14 »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #224
jbm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to agree with this line of reasoning, but then I saw that the same process was used to block war crimes investigators from using Microsoft's software.

Except that didn't happen https://www.politico.eu/article/microsoft-did-not-cut-servic...

Of course it did, it's been extensively covered in European newspapers and the article you linked doesn't even refute it happening. Microsoft is just twisting the truth to make themselves look less bad. Don't be so gullible.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#522

Post by 542354234235 »

lazide wrote: post #462
kelnos wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would Russia perhaps have already conquered Ukraine without sanctions? Would Iran have destroyed Israel by now without sanctions? Would NK have become a nuclear power much earlier, and have a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons today, were it not for sanctions? I don't know the answers to those questions, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was "yes".

Russia lost (in a real sense), when their blitzkrieg of Kiev failed. From that point on, it’s just how much they turn the crank on the meat grinder that is trench warfare. It’s the nature of the bet that is inherent in Blitzkrieg. Ukraine/Russia is about who is going to lose more after that, not who can win. No one can win anymore. Sanctions or lack thereof definitely impacts quality of life, but Putin put everything…

Russia has had to sell oil at a steep discount, which has cut into their revenue significantly. Hundreds of billions of dollars have been frozen/seized that can't be used to fund the war effort. Modern war is not just "beans and bullets”, and Russia pays upwards of 10 times the price for key components it needs for missiles, aviation, UAVs, tanks, artillery, air defense, etc. as well as quality manufacturing equipment needed.

Russian industry is operating at only 81% capacity, largely due to labor shortages, which make sense considering that about 1% of its labor force join the military every other month. Russia is losing tank barrels, artillery barrels, and infantry fighting vehicles more than 10 times faster than it can manufacture new ones. It will likely never be able to obtain a third rotary forge, required for barrel manufacture, to expand its capacity. It has almost entirely cannibalized its old, defunct Soviet era stock. They are being kept afloat by China, NK, and Iran, but with a much-reduced capacity, and often much lower quality. For example, Russia relies on China for 70-80% of its microchips, but China is dumping defective microchips on them with a 40% failure rate.

Sanctions have absolutely had significant, direct, measurable impacts on Russia’s ability to wage war and sustain war.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/21/half-of-russias-ai... https://jamestown.org/program/russia-exhausts-soviet-era-arm... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-where-are-russias-... https://archive.ph/c17pk https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/is-202... https://www.csis.org/analysis/how-sanctions-have-reshaped-ru... https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/comme... https://osintforukraine.com/publications/microchips https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/18/russia_china_semicond...

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#523

Post by nashashmi »

nemomarx wrote: post #449
nashashmi wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Is this really a US endeavor by policy?

It's the occasionally given justification for embargos on Cuba, Sanctions on North Korea, etc. Whether you believe it's the real reason is a different question.

Unbelievable that causing unrest in other countries is an official declared policy.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#524

Post by snickerdoodle14 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #292
onraglanroad wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both wrong about the number of prisoners. The link clearly states 2/3 of prisoners are workers and 3/4 of them report being compelled to work. That works out at 1/2 of all prisoners. Trying to spin this as benefits is...odd: "they are required to work or face additional punishment such as solitary confinement, denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence, and loss of family visitation."

> "they are required to work or face additional punishment such as solitary confinement, denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence, and loss of family visitation." "Denial of opportunities to reduce their sentence" means that prisoners with jobs are considered to be better candidates for sentence reduction by various means. That's true, but it doesn't come anywhere near "being compelled to work". The ACLU does…

[flagged]

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#525

Post by padjo »

tuveson wrote: post #452
kelnos wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries... "You all" is a weird way of putting it. I don't support my government levying sanctions on these countries, but I have zero power to change it. It's funny, as the gist author points out that he doesn't support the actions of the Islamic Republic, and has no power to change i…

> But even in the US, no one I've ever had the option to vote for (and who had even a remote chance of winning) would ever consider lifting these sanctions. So I am similarly powerless to change this situation. Not saying Obama’s foreign policy was perfect, but he did do the Iran nuclear deal which lifted some sanctions, and started the process of normalizing relations with Cuba. Like so many other things, these were…

Obama acknowledging that the US overthrew an Iranian democracy for the benefit of oil companies definitely helped and could have ushered in a new era of understanding. Sadly, America then decided to elect someone with a toddler’s understanding of history and geopolitics which destroyed all that opportunity for a generation.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#526

Post by Xelbair »

School-Cotton wrote: post #418
Xelbair wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'You' elect the government. Even if you didn't vote for ruling parties, majority did. Also it seems to be a common thing in Europe to refer to other's country populace OR government as plural 'You'. From my small sample size of 3, Americans were always confused by this and thought they were personally attacked.

> 'You' elect the government. Even if you didn't vote for ruling parties, majority did. So what? Even if 99% of the population agrees with doing something, that has no bearing on whether I agree with it or am responsible for it. And, anyway, no major candidate would have lifted sanctions on those countries, so nobody could have voted against them even if they wanted to. > Also it seems to be a common thing in Europe…

>So what? Even if 99% of the population agrees with doing something, that has no bearing on whether I agree with it or am responsible for it.

You are a cog, participating in system, voting in it and acting in it. You could wash away your responsibility only if you go back to serfdom.

>Perhaps Europeans, with their higher-quality parliamentary systems, are more likely to uncritically accept the idea that governments actually represent their people, whereas Americans are more likely to realize it's a sham.

well.. not really, i would say Europe is worse off as EU is basically one-party system with flavor distinctions. It is different on country-level but that varies on case by case basis.

Nevertheless the idea of democracy stays the same - you vote, directly or indirectly, on issues - every citizen is a participant in decision-making process.

No matter the political system, or ruling entity you have it will always have those 3 goals(in order), cynically speaking:

- self-preservation

- changing resource distribution in it's favor

- expanding it's influence outside the borders

The only thing keeping our rights(and that includes human rights) is the fact that governments can be replaced by different one(in healthy systems) with populace support, or that populace will revolt and reenact french revolution again(in unhealthy systems), or outside forces will take over.

Systems can be changed - either by evolution or revolution. Take your pick.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#527

Post by frabcus »

roenxi wrote: post #517
chabska wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody should be expected to take that risk I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea, with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Their authoritarian militaristic government that doesn't care for human rights…

I just want to add one angle I don't think the other comments covered well - it is obvious that nobody pushing the propaganda angle ("encouraging them to rise up") is serious because the track record is far too clear. I can't think of an instance where sanctions have ever triggered a political change and if they do then it is rarer than a country's elites changing direction due to internal political concerns. Nobody…

The example usually given by pro-sanctions campaigners is South Africa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during...)

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#528

Post by zokier »

tsimionescu wrote: post #266
Keirmot wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions have a theoretical basis behind them. In the Western Political Philosophical Canon, leaders and elites are expected to strive for the Common Good. From that perspective, sanctions aren’t meant as “torture for fun,” (as you put it) but as a way of creating pressure so governments change their behavior without having to resort to war. They’re basically a tool to raise the cost of bad actions and make it more…

The poster above was pointing out that this is a double standard. You don't expect a US citizen to risk their livelihood to help an Iranian, but you then expect an Iranian citizen to risk their livelihood AND life to topple a regime that is doing things that the USA doesn't like. So, you either take personal responsibility for enforcing sanctions yourself, or you admit that sanctions are a form of collective punishme…

It is far less of double standard than what you think. The key question is the legitimacy and mandate of the government. Western governments can claim legitimacy and mandate through democratic process (even if it is not perfect), which forms a social contract for their citizens to follow their laws. But if government is tyrannical and does not enjoy legitimacy then it's very different situation

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#529

Post by nahuel0x »

flyinglizard wrote: post #496
logicchains wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is occupying a piece of land it violently seized by force and ethnic cleansing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba . The people of Palestine have a right to self defense just like anyone else; exercising that right doesn't make them terrorists.

The notion that Israel was created by force is just not true. Jews were always a part of historical Palestine, and most of the land they inhabited was legally bought, by bodies like the JNF, up until the war of 1948. That war, started by the Arabs, came as a result of the League of Nations declaration of the formation of Israel. It's important to stress that there was never a Palestinian country, nor a cohesive Pales…

Tell that to the Palestinians families whose homes they owned for generations were stolen by Israel and their children are now murdered in the most horrible ways.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#530

Post by Xelbair »

sjapkee wrote: post #454
Xelbair wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'You' elect the government. Even if you didn't vote for ruling parties, majority did. Also it seems to be a common thing in Europe to refer to other's country populace OR government as plural 'You'. From my small sample size of 3, Americans were always confused by this and thought they were personally attacked.

>'You' elect the government. Even if you didn't vote for ruling parties, majority did. It's funny that people still believe governments let people elect anything. You can vote, you can ignore elections - result will be the same, your opinion doesn't matter

Then maybe some forces - economic, or realpolitik ones, or whatever etc - make the current situation a reality, no matter your political allegiance. Maybe it is infact an optimal resource distribution for current situation.

Or system is fundamentally broken, and You, as in populace, need to change it. you can talk to people, political party allegiance does not need to be a tribal relationship.

take your pick.

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