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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#521

Post by lightedman »

master_crab wrote: post #459
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that was one of the biggest campaign points and voter sentiment on which people flipped to Red This is nonsense outside Michigan. And to the extent this happened, I'd have to say pro-Palestinian voters in swing states casting with the guy who initiated the Muslim ban and recognised Jerusalem as Israel's capital essentially communicated that they were fine throwing millions of people in the Middle East under the bus…

There is such a thing as sitting-it-out. People didn’t necessarily vote for Trump. They just didn’t vote for Harris. And that is exactly what the voting record shows: votes for Democrats dropped significantly between 2020 and 2024.

"votes for Democrats dropped significantly between 2020 and 2024."

For, or from? this is an important distinction to make.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#522

Post by [deleted] »

beloch wrote: post #87
therobots927 wrote: post #60

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Net…

[deleted]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#523

Post by jmyeet »

yieldcrv wrote: post #14

Useless except if the following done on the US side: Remove exception to AIPAC political status Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely Replicate EO 14046 for Israel which adds the entire ruling party and head of state and spouses and military and affiliated business to the OFAC list all of this is easy and doesn’t require Congress but nobody is close to considering those actions with regard to Israel. Notably, o…

I fully understand the feelings of helplessness and hopelessness with this situation. Lots of people like to imagine what they'd do in certain situations, historical or otherwise. We no longer need to imagine what most people would do in the HOlocaust. We now know: nothing. In WW2, most people could reasonably claim ignorance. Even a lot of Germans could claim ignorance. Now we have livestreamed 4K 60fps evidence that is impossible to ignore.

There's a phrase that's widely attributed (arguably misattributed) to Lenin:

    "There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen"
So while the US could end this entire thing with a phone call, it's not true to say that things aren't changing. US support for Israel continues to plummet to new lows [1], to levels I never thought I'd see. Small things like blocking a cycling event in Spain, the future of Eurovision being uncertain, European states recognizing Palestine, problems for the port in Haifa due to changes in shipping because of Houthi rebels, ICC?ICJ investigations, these genocide findings and so on... it all adds up. It all matters. It all compounds to political and economic pressure on the actors involved.

[1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-militar...

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#524

Post by 8note »

imglorp wrote: post #79
therobots927 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voters can take a stand and refuse to vote for anyone complicit in this atrocity.

In the US, both parties were supportive in the last election. Not many choices.

couldnt you instead, run for government? if its something voters care about, either youll win, or the competing candidates will change their tune

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#525

Post by dluan »

Seeing PG slowly turn on this issue, from nothing into recognition and now into advocacy has been wild. Presumably because he has kids, and like many parents you understand with your eyes first, and then your heart.

PG wields some amount of power in SV, but YC and others are still inextricably tied to what's happening. Thiel was just in Israel with elad gil, rabois, alex karp, joe lonsdale. It's just too much to list.

I guess my point is when does recognition turn into action.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#526

Post by isr »

Aunche wrote: post #332
roenxi wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only the blue representatives would resolve this tension by pulling support for a now internationally-recognised genocide! :( I suppose that option is just too radical to put on the table.

The Biden administration brokered and pressured Israel into a ceasefire that asymmetrically disfavored them. Israel exchanged 30 Hamas militants per Israeli hostage. The ceasefire outlined a permanent resolution to the conflict, including Israel's full withdrawal from Gaza. They also pressured Israel to keep aid channels open during the war, which is exceptionally obvious now given significantly longer blockades and…

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#527

Post by zipzapzip »

AuthAuth wrote: post #404
zipzapzip wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

this is a baseless conspiracy. There is an entire report going over the operational failures that allowed oct 7th to happen and it wasnt the idf intentionally standing aside to let it happen. Also friend fire is predicted to be in the single digits and I dont think any has actually been confirmed.

[dead]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#528

Post by TheFreim »

revlolz wrote: post #517
TheFreim wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Holocaust does not justify committing a genocide against another population. Some people having inaccurate, or even immoral, views about what occurred on October 7th does not justify genocide. The fact that Hamas engages in evil acts does not justify genocide perpetrated against innocents. In short: Two wrongs do not make a right. It is also worth noting that you are not portraying the matter fairly. You are tran…

“Two wrongs don’t make a right” misframes the issue. Hamas murders civilians deliberately; Israel targets Hamas while taking steps to limit civilian harm. Civilian deaths are tragic, but tragedy is not genocide. The moral difference is intent. “The fact of the matter is that Israel hasn't merely been attacking Hamas targets that happen to also have civilians present, but rather that Israel is going beyond that to wil…

>Israel targets Hamas while taking steps to limit civilian harm. Civilian deaths are tragic, but tragedy is not genocide.

Israel does not merely target Hamas with incidental civilian deaths, they have been documented actively targeting civilians. This has been indisputably demonstrated at this point. Early on I was much more skeptical since it's similarly indisputable that Hamas does engage in terroristic behavior, but as time has gone on we've had report after report confirming that Israel isn't merely targeting Hamas.

> The moral difference is intent.

Hamas intends to eliminate Israel, Israel intends to eliminate Hamas (justifiable) and exterminate the Palestinians (unjustifiable) to continue their long-running expansion operation and further their grip on the region at the expense of the other native populations.

> Calling this “indiscriminate extermination” ignores Hamas using civilians as shields and demands an impossible standard of zero casualties.

1. I've already explicitly acknowledged the distinction between attacking Hamas, inadvertently harming civilians in the process, and the active slaying of the civilian population which is taking place. The former is regrettable but unavoidable, the latter is evil and it is what is also taking place.

2. I intentionally said "near-indiscriminate" rather than just "indiscriminate" for a reason. Unlike many people, yourself included, I don't view this conflict as a completely black-and-white matter. Israel is instrumentalizing their legitimate efforts in order to implement a wider effort to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#529

Post by endorphine »

dluan wrote: post #525

Seeing PG slowly turn on this issue, from nothing into recognition and now into advocacy has been wild. Presumably because he has kids, and like many parents you understand with your eyes first, and then your heart. PG wields some amount of power in SV, but YC and others are still inextricably tied to what's happening. Thiel was just in Israel with elad gil, rabois, alex karp, joe lonsdale. It's just too much to list…

Is he still vocal about it? Do you have any recent comments of his to share?

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#530

Post by yieldcrv »

l2silver wrote: post #468
yieldcrv wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is how they reacted, by preparing for isolation https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/15/middleeast/netanyahu-israel-i... https://www.dw.com/en/middle-east-israel-to-get-ready-for-is... https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-admits-israel-is-eco... pick whichever source you respect the most

What about the rest of Israel?

Until Israeli citizens do to the coalition what they're [ostensibly] hoping Gaza citizens do to Hamas

then what about the rest of Israel?

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