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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#521

Post by throwaway7783 »

I-M-S wrote: post #511
throwaway7783 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't even remotely true. Life is nothing like western countries in most parts of the world, authoritarian or not.There is a reason for such levels of immigration to western countries.

In a lot of cases that reason is that the West has pillaged and/or coup-ed those countries in the past, and doesn't care if it scorches and/or submerges them underwater in the future.

I agree. My country was plundered for hundreds of years. And some now have the gall to say these invaders brought progress to a backward country. However, that is orthogonal to the point being discussed

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#522

Post by queenkjuul »

rafaelmn wrote: post #510
specproc wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

> Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. This is a wild take, unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kind of way. If I call the prime minister a criminal liar - worst that will happen is I get a defamation lawsuit. In authoritarian countries I go to a prison camp, and the neighbors are the one to report me. Even if I'm not political - if step on toes of people in…

Has this happened to you or someone you know or else how do you know better about what happens in other countries than someone who's lived there?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#523

Post by gradientsrneat »

ManlyBread wrote: post #142

>credit score Non-existent in the country I live in. There's a national registry of debtors and people end up there for a very good reason. >Linkedin, Amazon There's no reason to consider these to be essential services, I am not using either and I'm doing perfectly fine in life. >Instagram LOL >Uber, Airbnb There are several copycats, traditional taxis and hotels are still a thing and public transportation or your ow…

> Is Chinese propaganda what makes it to the front page of HN nowadays?

Yep. Because USA is a country which still ostensibly has free speech norms in its society, so you could get human rights commentary one day, foreign propaganda another day (even though the federal Trump government arrests political opponents), where meanwhile many human rights movements are banned in China. As the Soviets would say in the early 20th century, "And you are lynching Negroes". False equivalence is the bread and butter of authoritarian propaganda. By equating the two, we may fail to distinguish right from wrong and slide further toward authoritarianism.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#524

Post by queenkjuul »

californical wrote: post #520
rafaelmn wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. This is a wild take, unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kind of way. If I call the prime minister a criminal liar - worst that will happen is I get a defamation lawsuit. In authoritarian countries I go to a prison camp, and the neighbors are the one to report me. Even if I'm not political - if step on toes of people in…

I’ve seen a couple Reddit threads recently where someone says something like “my neighbor has been doing [insert major nuisance here], I think they might not be citizens. I’m not in favor of ICE taking people away, but should I report them since it might solve [nuisance]?” The couple I’ve seen, the people aren’t that direct in their comments. And I’ve seen reports of citizens being arrested for a day or two while the…

Oh that's tame, go to Facebook where boomers are falling over themselves tagging ICE in comments with their neighbors' names and addresses

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#525

Post by gradientsrneat »

gradientsrneat wrote: post #523
ManlyBread wrote: post #142

>credit score Non-existent in the country I live in. There's a national registry of debtors and people end up there for a very good reason. >Linkedin, Amazon There's no reason to consider these to be essential services, I am not using either and I'm doing perfectly fine in life. >Instagram LOL >Uber, Airbnb There are several copycats, traditional taxis and hotels are still a thing and public transportation or your ow…

> Is Chinese propaganda what makes it to the front page of HN nowadays? Yep. Because USA is a country which still ostensibly has free speech norms in its society, so you could get human rights commentary one day, foreign propaganda another day (even though the federal Trump government arrests political opponents), where meanwhile many human rights movements are banned in China. As the Soviets would say in the early 2…

But by virtue of "tolerance of intolerance" principle and the general lack of editorial quality of much Chinese propaganda, I see no reason why most of it need be present on HN.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#526

Post by queenkjuul »

jajko wrote: post #477
specproc wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

> I'm not saying everywhere is identical, there's a spectrum Why such drama with many words, when all can be summed up with that. Yet somehow, people consider life much better on one side of the spectrum, while other side is considered utter shit. So much that many people are risking their lives, and some are dying just to 'move across spectrum'. It may be a hard concept to grok for typical western kids who often str…

Well here in the West we were also sent to some kind of school to be brainwashed to be obedient soldiers for rubbish ideologies, so we have that in common

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#527

Post by mattnewton »

benreesman wrote: post #345
mattnewton wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west Okay but that is exactly why I would prefer a western liberal government. It is better and that is ideal is worth criticizing authoritarians for, and fighting to keep in the west.

There isn't an "authoritarian bit", it's not binary. When I was young the idea that your own computer would spy on you, or the one in your phone, or in your car? That was a William Gibson novel, wiretaps happened to mob bosses, you didn't worry about it happening to you as part of a dragnet. Security camera? You mean in a bank right? Microsoft bundling IE was so egregious that the department of justice took time off…

I think we’re in violent agreement about what is bad and what we should fight for.

My point is that there is a difference and throwing your hands up and saying everywhere is bad obscures what is being lost and how democracies allow nonviolent ways to seize it back.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#528

Post by rafaelmn »

californical wrote: post #520
rafaelmn wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. This is a wild take, unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kind of way. If I call the prime minister a criminal liar - worst that will happen is I get a defamation lawsuit. In authoritarian countries I go to a prison camp, and the neighbors are the one to report me. Even if I'm not political - if step on toes of people in…

I’ve seen a couple Reddit threads recently where someone says something like “my neighbor has been doing [insert major nuisance here], I think they might not be citizens. I’m not in favor of ICE taking people away, but should I report them since it might solve [nuisance]?” The couple I’ve seen, the people aren’t that direct in their comments. And I’ve seen reports of citizens being arrested for a day or two while the…

OK but that's something that's beginning to happen in the US versus the default of authoritarian regimes - my point is that is not "pretty much the same" as OP put it.

You might get physically attacked by some neanderthal if you're openly gay in public in the west, and in some middle eastern countries you get stoned on a public square - but hey we all unwind and have some fun when we can, so it's pretty much the same ?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#529

Post by Levitz »

cyanydeez wrote: post #415
XorNot wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay but no scandal can damage a politician because you the American people are currently choosing to let that be the case. Same with the billionaires. The entire problem gets painted as "other" but it's you: you're actually promulgating it by your very choice of language here!

Sure, but its a boiling frog with cancer. Certain states made choices to skew far right and other states mde choices to "keep business open" and others made choices to remain ignorant. This becomes diffusion of responsibility because every cycle maybe 1% were directly embracing far white religious authoritarian. The consistency of those choices were sticky because the oligarchy spent decades ensuring. The point being…

[flagged]

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#530

Post by mrweasel »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #473
mrweasel wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? They are in no way entitled to see your pay slip, or know how much you make. Whether or not you can pay rent is entirely your problem (North EU). You have a deposit, typically three months rent, that's typically enough to indicate whether or not you're able to pay rent.

>Whether or not you can pay rent is entirely your problem (North EU). This doesn't sound right. In which "North EU" country sis this BTW?

Denmark. To be fair I haven't rented an apartment in 15 years. My understanding is that the rule still are: If you don't pay, you get a 14 day warning, if you don't pay within those 14 days, your lease can be terminated the next day. Assuming that you then refuse to move, the landlord can have the bailiff (not sure if that's the right word) kick you out.
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