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Why are there so many rationalist cults?

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Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#521

Post by [deleted] »

djeastm wrote: post #481
username332211 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why people can't be bothered to get formal training is that modern philosophy doesn't seem that useful. It was a while ago, but take the infamous story of the 2006 rape case in Duke University. If you check out coverage of that case, you get the impression every member of faculty that joined in the hysteria was from some humanities department, including philosophy. And quite a few of them refused to change…

Modern philosophy isn't useful because some philosophy faculty at Duke were wrong about a rape case? Is that the argument being made here?

[deleted]

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#522

Post by wombatpm »

godelski wrote: post #450
robocat wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw an article recently that talked about stringing likely inferences together but ending up with an unreliable outcome because enough 0.9 probabilities one after the other lead to an unlikely conclusion. Edit: Couldn't find the article, but AI referenced Baysian "Chain of reasoning fallacy".

I think you have this oversimplified. Stringing together inferences can take us in either direction. It really depends on how things are being done and this isn't always so obvious or simple. But just to show both directions I'll give two simple examples (real world holds many more complexities) It is all about what is being modeled and how the inferences string together. If these are being multiplied, then yes, this…

Can’t you improve thing if you can calibrate with a known good vampire? You’d think NIST or the CDC would have one locked in a basement somewhere.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#523

Post by ziknard »

VonGuard wrote: post #228

This is actually a known pattern in tech, going back to Engelbart and SRI. While not 1-to-1, you could say that the folks who left SRI for Xerox PARC did so because Engelbart and his crew became obsessed with EST: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training EST-type training still exists today. You don't eat until the end of the whole weekend, or maybe you get rice and little else. Everyone is told to insu…

There is a words for people who go to EST: EST-holes.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#524

Post by staticman2 »

qcnguy wrote: post #508
djeastm wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern philosophy isn't useful because some philosophy faculty at Duke were wrong about a rape case? Is that the argument being made here?

Which group of people giving modern training in philosophy should we judge the field by? If they can't use it correctly in such a basic case then who can?

Did the Duke philosophy teachers claim they were using philosophy to determine if someone was raped?

And did all the philosophers at all the other colleges convene and announce they were also using philosophy to determine if someone was raped?

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#525

Post by crazydoggers »

Trying to find life’s answers by giving over your self authority to another individual or group’s philosophy is not rational. Submitting oneself to an authority who’s role is telling people what’s best in life will always lead to attracting the type of people looking to control, take advantage and traumatize others.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#526

Post by buggy6257 »

kridsdale3 wrote: post #520
Henchman21 wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call this “diarrhea of the mind”. It’s what happens when you hear a steady stream of bullshit from someone’s mouth. It definitely tracks with substance abuse of “uppers”, aka meth, blow, hell even caffeine!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logorrhea_(psychology)

well now i finally have a good blog name for the blog i'll never start.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#527

Post by wredcoll »

meowface wrote: post #503
quickthrowman wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only know Eliezer Yudkowsky from his Harry Potter fanfiction, most notably Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality . Is he known publicly for some other reason?

He's considered the father of rationalism and the father of AI doomerism. He wrote this famous article in Time magazine a few years ago: https://time.com/6266923/ai-eliezer-yudkowsky-open-letter-no... His book If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies comes out in a month: https://www.amazon.com/Anyone-Builds-Everyone-Dies-Superhuma... You can find more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliezer_Yudkowsky

> He's considered the father of rationalism

[citation needed]

Even for this weird cult that is trying to appropriate the word, would they really consider him the father of redefining the word?

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#528

Post by wredcoll »

username332211 wrote: post #413
vehemenz wrote: post #344

I get the impression that these people desperately want to study philosophy but for some reason can't be bothered to get formal training because it would be too humbling for them. I call it "small fishbowl syndrome," but maybe there's a better term for it.

The reason why people can't be bothered to get formal training is that modern philosophy doesn't seem that useful. It was a while ago, but take the infamous story of the 2006 rape case in Duke University. If you check out coverage of that case, you get the impression every member of faculty that joined in the hysteria was from some humanities department, including philosophy. And quite a few of them refused to change…

> Meanwhile, whatever meager resistence was faced by that group seems to have come from economists, natural scientist or legal scholars.

> I wouldn't blame people for refusing to study in a humanities department where they can't tell right from wrong.

Man, if you have to make stuff up to try to convince people... you might not be on the right side here.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#529

Post by username332211 »

djeastm wrote: post #481
username332211 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why people can't be bothered to get formal training is that modern philosophy doesn't seem that useful. It was a while ago, but take the infamous story of the 2006 rape case in Duke University. If you check out coverage of that case, you get the impression every member of faculty that joined in the hysteria was from some humanities department, including philosophy. And quite a few of them refused to change…

Modern philosophy isn't useful because some philosophy faculty at Duke were wrong about a rape case? Is that the argument being made here?

No. The fact that they were wrong is almost irrelevant.

The faculty denounced the students without evidence, judged the case thought their emotions and their preconceived notions and refused to change their minds as new evidence emerged. Imagine having an academic discussion on a difficult ethical issue with such a teacher...

And none of that would have changed even, even if there somehow was a rape-focused conspiracy among the students of that university. (Thought the problem would have been significantly less obvious.)

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#530

Post by wredcoll »

pizzadog wrote: post #445

I have a lot of experience with rationalists. What I will say is: 1) If you have a criticism about them or their stupid name or how "'all I know is that I know nothing' how smug of them to say they're truly wise," rest assured they have been self flagellating over these criticisms 100x longer than you've been aware of their group. That doesn't mean they succeeded at addressing the criticisms, of course, but I can tel…

But are they scotsmen?
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