This is a salient observation that I don’t think has been presented bluntly enough by the media or popular culture (such as Mr Bates Vs The Post Office). The UK is class-obsessed, which is not as immediately clear to the rest of the world (especially US). Lends a lot of credence to your theory.
In the UK class is about your education, how you speak and who your parents are and, to a lesser extent, money. In the US I get the impression that it is much more about money. And therefore less static.
The money is implied by having parents who can afford your private school fees.
Effectively tortured to death. One of the things that frustrates me with how ethics is taught in computer science is that we use examples like Therac 25, and people listen in horror, then their takeaway is frequently "well thank god I don't work on medical equipment". The fact that it's medical equipment is a distraction. All software can cause harm to others. All of it. You need to care about all of it.
Jesus I desperately wish real ethics classes were required for computer science degrees
The best available evidence is that ethics classes reduce ethical behaviour.
Deep State makes kind of sense here, because the U.K. Post Office, had there own Law Enforcement. They can act like the state in several ways. I think the correct term is "Private prosecution". And as fare as I understand it, the U.K. Post Office was able to have there own judge.
No, the Post Office doesn't have its own "law enforcement" (if you mean something like a police force) or its own judges. Any company has the right to bring a private prosecution under UK law, and this was the basis for the prosecutions in question. It just means that the company pays for some of the costs involved. Whether or not private prosecutions should be allowed is certainly a legitimate topic of discussion. L…
> Any company has the right to bring a private prosecution under UK law
That's a simplification. The Post Office has a more privileged position due to its history; it has both formal access (e.g. to police computers) and informal deference from CPS that regular companies do not enjoy.
I went on a deep dive on this scandal about a year or so ago. One thing that struck me is the class element. Basically, the Post Office leadership could not understand why someone would buy a PO franchise. It's a substantial amount of money up front, and people aren't allowed to buy multiple franchises, so every PO was an owner/operator position. Essentially people were "buying a job". The people in leadership couldn…
This is utterly illogical. Who in their right mind would commit a crime with a 100% probability of getting caught?
This isn't a classic embezzlement of public funds, where the people receiving the money are also the people deciding whether it was well spent or not and hence could easily divert some of the money through behind the scenes deals with contractors without getting caught.
The "embezzlement" here is on the level of getting an invoice and not paying it.
> Traditionally America likes to pretend this kind of class contempt doesn't exist It just manifests as racism.
there's still regular ol classism, too, racism is just part of the calculus. Poor white folks don't have it good, they just have it less bad than poor not-white folks
In America maybe, in south africa it's quite the opposite considering the government provides a lot more support for poor non-white folks than for white folks (specifically based om race)
If you're looking for hard numbers on how many people shouldn't be getting them then you won't find it. Only the government has access to the details of individual claims. However you can infer a lot from a) the insane rise in claims, especially mental health related: https://obr.uk/docs/box-chart-3-f.png Has the mental health of the nation got twice as bad in 2 years? Obviously not. And b) whenever the BBC does touc…
Nothing sounds wrong to me in any of the cases you mentioned? > £400/month help with her bills because she struggles with time management? I'm sympathetic to her problems but that is a shit ton of money! £4800/yr is a shit ton of money? Things must be pretty rough over there! > Child benefit also goes to lots of people (myself included) who totally don't need it. Is that a bad thing?
> £4800/yr is a shit ton of money
It's a shit ton of money for the government to just pay to people. I wasn't saying it's enough money to live on or anything. Obviously.
> Is that a bad thing?
The government is just a little short on money and they're wasting it by giving WFA and child benefit to people who definitely don't need it.
Read the book, if you havent already. The senior technical staff was actively obfuscating and lying. Developers knew the system had synchronization issues, operations knew as well, as they were apparently routinely doing manual data fixes in production. Senior engineering staff are the most to blame. They messed up and then covered up. The fact that their management covered up some more can be partially excused by te…
That explanation based on lies by the tech staff, is another variation of the Volkswagen explanation that the emissions scandal, were just some low level engineers. The essence of this story is how the UK establishment can lie, and be corrupt to levels that will shame big time criminals. [1] "...Vennells was the CEO of Post Office Ltd during the latter part of the Post Office scandal, which involved more than 900 sub…
I am not pointing fingers at low level engineers - I specifically blame their senior tech staff. The lead architect who later became their CTO (and is since retired). Tha guy knew full well.
I dont deny the management was criminally complicit in the cover up, but it starts with bugs, then lies and dishonesty and cowardess of technical staff - and only then it has a chance of becoming what it became because of atrociously unethical management. They all belong in case studies taught to both tech and business majors.
I went on a deep dive on this scandal about a year or so ago. One thing that struck me is the class element. Basically, the Post Office leadership could not understand why someone would buy a PO franchise. It's a substantial amount of money up front, and people aren't allowed to buy multiple franchises, so every PO was an owner/operator position. Essentially people were "buying a job". The people in leadership couldn…
Interesting how supposed fraud from lower class people is a high priority that must be punished, but fraud from upper class people is almost always protected by the corporate veil.
I came to realize spending few minutes every so many years to cast a vote in between the purchase of that great massage gun and groceries shopping, for party members who have been extensively vetted and not by you, doesn’t entitle to any control. Democracy is simply the most successful strategy to make believe into fairness and reduce costs of exercising power. With the capability to excise taxes and leverage them into debt that will always be repaid, one way or another, until the last citizen breathes government is, and always was, the greatest business of all times. Corporations who invest at every level, all the time, to make a buck do buy control. Mostly proportional to their investments into the wheels of government.
You're probably right—I just wanted to share a few thoughts and would welcome any corrections or clarification. If I were in leadership, I'd assume there are edge cases I'm missing and take responsibility accordingly. Id just assume that is my job, as the leader, that is why I am paid, to make important decisions and stop the company from making big mistakes. This isn’t a critique of your view—just an observation: th…
CEO really is just another job, though. Perhaps you meant to say director? That is where the accountability lies, both practically and legally. CEO is the top of middle management, but still middle management all the same. The board and owners sit above that position, if you want to picture it as some kind of hierarchy, and are the driving leadership. They call the shots. The CEO has to answer to them. Perhaps what y…
Thanks for clarification I guess all higher ups should share
Sorry, but citation needed. Means testing might seem “obvious” from first principles, but from a policy point of view, it makes little to no sense. The macroeconomic effects of welfare programs create a society that is better for everyone to live in. Reducing the issue to a matter of personal responsibility is a reframing that allows you to completely lose sight of the big picture, and create programs that are destin…
Citation needed for the right to other people's money. Government running charity interferes with the normal feedback in society. And the need to ask politely, justify one's apparently bad decisions and change failing behavior. People become "entitled" to regular cash so a lot of the fear that ordinarily motivates the rest of us goes away. Any system that asks nothing of people is a bad system. I grew up on welfare.…
Citation needed that your neoliberal views are anything other than bad faith voodoo economics. We have decades' worth of proof that it's toxic for society, both politically and economically. Your whole talking point is an excuse for the ultra rich to get even richer through mass exploitation, which ironically is the embodiment of entitlement that you're so opposed to.