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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#521

Post by threetonesun »

ekianjo wrote: post #509
bumby wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

Regulations will make cars unaffordable which is exactly what they are pushing for

Tire sensors and backup cameras are dirt cheap though. Maybe lane warning and collision avoidance are a bit more but they’re both 10+ year old technology, they can’t cost that much. Also all of these things are good. Redoing the steering wheel or using 22” wheels or adding heating for each individual ass cheek… that I don’t need, and it adds to the cost.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#522

Post by Lev1a »

bumby wrote: post #500
alerighi wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if they would make a basic car like in the past I would buy it. Everyone has to sell you too much, I want a simple car, I don't want either the stereo, I will add my own later (I can put it one that is better than the factory one for a cheaper price, but in a modern car replacing the stereo is almost impossible). There are a ton of useless sensors, the sensor that tells you if you have a flat tire (I think I can…

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

AFAIK some automakers also cut down on the number of sensors by doing stuff like reading the already implemented sensor(s) for the ABS to provide the tire pressure warning function.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#523

Post by sofixa »

matthewowen wrote: post #461
sofixa wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need recourse to GDP, you can just look at household income which really is higher. Income would include the money being immediately spent to cover debt (be it student loans, mortgage, medical, car). > Most things do _not_ actually have inflated prices relative to European countries I'm struggling to think of things which aren't inflated. Only one I can come up with is gas/petrol/fuel, because there are m…

> netflix and co Standard plan is £5.99 in UK, €7.99 in france, $7.99 in the US. So the US is the cheapest of those after currency conversion > cinema US median price in 2022: $10.53. In the UK, £7.69 == $10.54 (uncanny tbh) > groceries https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/360768/what-a-basket-o... puts the US at $52.80, France at $51.08. I'm genuinely struggling to understand where you are pulling these conclusions…

> Standard plan is £5.99 in UK, €7.99 in france, $7.99 in the US. So the US is the cheapest of those after currency conversion

Standard with ads, which is distorting because ads have a different cost and benefit (more expensive and lucrative in the US). Standard Standard is 14.99€ in France, £12.99 in the UK, $17.99 in the US.

> US median price in 2022: $10.53. In the UK, £7.69 == $10.54 (uncanny tbh)

2022 is distorted due to Covid.

> > groceries

> https://www.lovemoney.com/gallerylist/360768/what-a-basket-o... puts the US at $52.80, France at $51.08.

I like how you picked France, not Poland at $27, Spain at $35, UK at $35, Ireland at $39, Belgium at $42, Italy at $44, Germany at $46, etc.

> I'm genuinely struggling to understand where you are pulling these conclusions from because they don't fit the trivially searchable data, nor do they fit the anecdotal conclusions that I think most people would make from spending time in these places.

From visiting the US multiple times over relatively extended periods (few weeks at a time) over the past few years, while living and travelling extensively over the EU. Plus anecdotes from the internet. A lot of things are more expensive, when you count everything (tax, tips, etc).

> Yes, they're more favorable

You said they're favourable, not more favourable than e.g. in the UK. What's the average APR?

> You were the first person in this thread to bring up GDP per capita! The person you are replying to said "richer".

The only metric by which Mississipi is "richer" than France is GDP/GDP per capita.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#524

Post by moooo99 »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #517

Completely unmentioned: Chinese EVs are $10k worldwide except USA. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/08/2025-byd-seagull-ev-sta...

First of all, that statement is entirely untrue. These cars aren‘t 10k in most (all?) of the EU for example. As far as I know, these 10k cars are really only a thing in china and some SEA markets (I am not sure if these cars are really that cheap adjusted to purchasing power in these markets).

Beyond that, the chinese EV brands are in market capture mode right now. The competition is cut throat and the margins are extremely thin.

It‘s a market skimming strategy that will presumably be a last man standing scenario. If the winner(s) are decided, prices will definitely not remain as low as they are right now in some places.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#525

Post by graemep »

jdietrich wrote: post #471
mxfh wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they are not heavily advertised, doesnt mean they don't exist. Dacia Sandero/Duster/Spring exist. (Renault) Citroen C1, Toyota Aygo, Peugeot 108, (VW up!.) Considering Volkswagen Group: With a choice of Skoda Fabia/Seat Ibiza/VW Polo you would go for Skoda or Seat, not the VW brand itself if you dont care about marque but price. But prestige is a huge factor still, so people would still go for an overpri…

Here in the UK, the price of the base-spec Dacia Sandero (and comparable cars like the Kia Picanto and Hyundai i10) has more than doubled in six years. The C1, 108 and Up! have been discontinued, as have a raft of other cheap small cars. That's partly explained by inflation, but also by the massive amounts of extra safety equipment mandated by the General Safety Regulation. The bill of materials for cheap cars has in…

A Dacia Spring is still around £11k at the cheapest dealers, Sandero about £16k, and a Renault Clio about £17k, Kia Picanto £15k. All for bottom end variants with no extras, but gets you there.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#526

Post by spacephysics »

alerighi wrote: post #436
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not merely an issue of obtaining materially desirable consumer goods though; lots of folks get car loans because they can't afford to buy a car, even a cheap car, without one. So it's either, don't get a car and give up a lot of opportunities or hope you live in a place with decent public transit (which is not a given in many places in the US)

You can always get an used car for practically any amount of money. A lot of time an used car is even more reliable than a new shiny car full of useless electronic components. To me buying new cars is just throwing away money, simply because at the moment you brought the car out from the dealer the car just is worth 3/4 of the price you payed it, and when you have to resell it in 10 years it is worth almost nothing.

Unfortunately many people don’t see cost, debt, and cars that way.

Imagine you get your first car, it’s used and a bit run down but you’re paying $250/month on a modest loan. Nothing crazy but you needed a loan and a car that was modestly reliable.

You get a couple of small raises, eventually the car is in the shop more and you feel you deserve a better car because of the hard work and long hours. You see ads for a new car at just another $100 per month on TV. $350/month would be tight, but you feel you’ve earned it.

You go to the dealership only to find the car you really want is closer to $500/month which you can’t afford.

The salesman says “let me see what i can do,” comes back from the finance office, and voila! Got the payment down to $375/month. It’s more than you initially expected but maybe you just don’t go out to eat as much. You’re sick of your old rust box, always in the shop. And you’ll probably get a raise soon too. So you sign.

And bam, you got a 6, 7, or even 9 year car loan. You don’t realize how much insurance will increase. You haven’t had a new car yet so you didn’t even think excise tax would be that much (for the first year of a new car its typically a lot) and now you’re struggling in debt with a new car that lost 20-35% of it’s value right off the lot, so you’re underwater on the loan.

Long winded story to say for many people a car is an emotional extension of themselves. Identity even, and it’s difficult to break that into a more utilitarian mindset. Thus justifying the high cost and debt is easier than if you were looking at it as just a way to get to point A and B

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#527

Post by diggan »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #517

Completely unmentioned: Chinese EVs are $10k worldwide except USA. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/08/2025-byd-seagull-ev-sta...

The Seagull (aka "Dolphin Surf" in other countries) seems to cost 18560 GBP in the UK, or 11.780€ in Spain. Haven't checked out other countries, but clearly "Chinese EVs (BYD Seagull/Dolphin Surf/Dolphin Mini) are $10k worldwide except USA" isn't 100% correct.

Seems fine to leave something like that unmentioned, as a quick check reveals it not to be true at all.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#528

Post by BirAdam »

puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

Honestly, there are two different main drivers of US automobile pricing. The first was a combination of fuel efficiency and safety regulations that when combined were difficult to meet. One side effect is that all vehicles got larger so they could be in a different vehicle class and therefore have a lower fuel efficiency standard, and then in other cases the engines were made smaller with turbos added to make up the horsepower loss. The second driving force is just consumer expectations. Many companies did make cheaper vehicles that still met the regulatory burdens and people simply didn't want them.

With inflation pressures, layoffs, and other downward pricing pressures, we should expect consumer preferences to change, but I also expect that the global vehicle fleet will continue to age (especially as most vehicles are of sufficient quality that they needn't be replaced).

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#530

Post by contrarian1234 »

diggan wrote: post #527
1970-01-01 wrote: post #517

Completely unmentioned: Chinese EVs are $10k worldwide except USA. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/08/2025-byd-seagull-ev-sta...

The Seagull (aka "Dolphin Surf" in other countries) seems to cost 18560 GBP in the UK, or 11.780€ in Spain. Haven't checked out other countries, but clearly "Chinese EVs (BYD Seagull/Dolphin Surf/Dolphin Mini) are $10k worldwide except USA" isn't 100% correct. Seems fine to leave something like that unmentioned, as a quick check reveals it not to be true at all.

but I'm guessing those are post tax prices .. While in the US prices are pre-tax

So if you saw the pretax figures it'd probably be true

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