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Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

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Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#521

Post by kentonv »

jjcm wrote: post #481
kentonv wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was disappointed in that one. I hate to say, though, but I have reviewed a lot of human code in my time, and I've definitely caught many humans making similar-magnitude mistakes. :/

Most interesting aspect of this is it likely learned this pattern from human-written code!

It's not a 100% bad idea. If you lose the encryption key, you lose the data. Data loss is bad! So better keep a backup of the key somewhere. I can see how it got there.

Defeats the purpose in this case though.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#522

Post by aerhardt »

dang wrote: post #499
aerhardt wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it takes more time to be producted, and it is harder too because you always need to supervise and correct what's done This is hogwash, the lead dev in charge of this has commented elsewhere that he's saved inordinate amounts of time. He mentioned that he gets about a day a week to code and produced this in under a month, which under those circumstances would've been impossible without LLM assistance.

Can you please make your substantive points without name-calling like "This is hogwash"? Your comment would be just fine without that bit. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . " When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. 'That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3' can be shortened to '1 + 1 is 2, not 3. "

OK, but in my defense "hogwash" is literally defined as "nonsense" by Oxford dictionary, I didn't call a person names and only criticized the idea. It's softer than "idiotic" which while also an attribute of the idea may be taken to imply that the person is an idiot. Not my intention.

The point is nevertheless taken that it adds nothing of substance to the argument, and I will not do it again.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#523

Post by etruong42 »

kentonv wrote: post #132
thewebguyd wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what if you only need 2 kentonv's instead of 20 at the end? Do you assume we'll find enough new tasks that will occupy the other 18? I think that's the question. This is likely where all this will end up. I have doubts that AI will replace all engineers, but I have no doubt in my mind that we'll certainly need a lot less engineers. A not so dissimilar thing happened in the sysadmin world (my career) when everyt…

I think there's a huge huge space of software to build that isn't being touched today because it's not cost-effective to have an engineer build them. But if the time it takes an engineer to build any one thing goes down, now there are a lot more things that are cost effective. Consider niche use cases. Every company tends to have custom processes and workflows. Think about being an accountant at one company vs. anoth…

This is precisely why I compare this technological revolution with the electronic spreadsheet. Before the electronic spreadsheet, what used to take several accountants several days to "compute a whole spreadsheet" after changing "a few inputs" is serviced by a single accountant in a few minutes. That kind of service that was only available to enormous firms with teams of dozens of accountants is now available to firms with a technically proficient employee who do that kind of accounting as only a small part of their role.

It took time as different firms adapted to adopt computer technologies in their various business needs and workflows. It's hard to precisely predict how labor roles will change with each revolutionary technology.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#524

Post by azemetre »

lenglain wrote: post #520
azemetre wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this because the LLMs had like a million+ react tutorials/articles/books/repos to train on? I mean I try to use them for svelte or vue and it still recommends react snippets sometimes.

I have had no issues with LLMs trying to force a language on me. I tried the whole snake game test with ChatGPT but Instead of using Python I asked it to use the nodejs bindings for raylib, which is rather unusual. It did it in no time and no complaints.

To be more honest, it did feel like if I just stuck with the standard library it was okay at generating a higher ratio of useful snippets. Once I introduced a library is where things fell apart.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#526

Post by ncruces »

kentonv wrote: post #501
827a wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but also: Cloudflare is one of like fifteen organizations on the planet writing code like this. The vast majority of The Rest Of Us will just consume code like this, which companies like Cloudflare, Auth0, etc write. That tends to be the nature of highly-specialized highly-domain-specific code. Cloudflare employs those mythical Oauth experts you talk about.

That's me. I'm the expert. On my very most productive days of my entire career I've managed to produce ~1000 lines of code. This library is ~5000 (including comments, tests, and documentation, which you omitted for some reason). I managed to prompt it out of the AI over the course of about five days. But they were five days when I also had a lot of other things going on -- meetings, chats, code reviews, etc. Not my m…

Would you have gotten to be where you are now, if AI would've always been there writing this code for you?

Would you have been able to review it for its faults, had you not experienced the pain of committing some of them yourself, or been warned by your peers of the same?

Would you have become the senior expert that you are if that had been your learning process?

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#527

Post by chipsrafferty »

kiitos wrote: post #506
brailsafe wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't agree with the idea that expert time would just be spent typing, and I'd be really surprised if that's the common sentiment around here. They didn't suggest that at all, they merely suggested that the component of the expert's work that would otherwise be spent typing can be saved, while the rest of their utility comes from intense scrutiny, problem solving, decision making about what to build and wh…

Time spent typing is statistically 0% of overall time spent in developing/implementing/shipping a feature or product or whatever. There's literally no reason to try to optimize that irrelevant detail.

No it's not. It's close to 50%.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#528

Post by chipsrafferty »

827a wrote: post #503
kentonv wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This workers-oauth-provider project is 1200 lines of code. An expert should be able to write that on the scale of an hour. Are you being serious here? Let's do the math. 1200 lines in a hour would be one line every three seconds, with no breaks. And your figure of 1200 lines is apparently omitting whitespace and comments. The actual code is 2626 lines. Let's say we ignore blank lines, then it's 2251 lines. So one l…

"On the scale of an hour" means "within an order of magnitude of one hour", or either "10 minutes to 10 hours" or "0.1 hours to 10 hours" depending on your interpretation, either is fine.

It means "less than one hour".

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#529

Post by shaky-carrousel »

fastball wrote: post #509
shaky-carrousel wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of lines that you have to carefully read and understand.

Are you not doing that already? I go line-by-line through the code that I wrote (in my git client) before I stage+commit it.

Yes, but you know the kind of code you write. When you re-check it, you are looking for minor typos, no major logic flaws affecting half the committed code.

Re: Cloudlflare builds OAuth with Claude and publishes all the prompts

#530

Post by jdbohrman »

kentonv wrote: post #105
paxys wrote: post #10

This is exactly the direction I expect AI-assisted coding to go in. Not software engineers being kicked out and some business person pressing a few buttons to have a fully functional app (as is playing out in a lot of fantasies on LinkedIn & X), but rather experienced engineers using AI to generate bits of code and then meticulously reviewing and testing them. The million dollar (perhaps literally) question is – coul…

It took me a few days to build the library with AI. I estimate it would have taken a few weeks, maybe months to write by hand. That said, this is a pretty ideal use case: implementing a well-known standard on a well-known platform with a clear API spec. In my attempts to make changes to the Workers Runtime itself using AI, I've generally not felt like it saved much time. Though, people who don't know the codebase as…

YES!!!! I've actually been thinking about starting a studio specifically geared to turning complex RFPs and protocols into usable tools with AI-assisted coding. I built these using Cursor just to test how for it could go. I think the potential of doing that as a service is huge:

https://github.com/jdbohrman-tech/hermetic-mls https://github.com/jdbohrman-tech/roselite

I think it's funny that Roselite caused a huge meltdown to the Veilid team simply because they have a weird adamancy to no AI assistance. They even called it "plagiarism"

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