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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#521

Post by slowmovintarget »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #503
slowmovintarget wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also unlikely that Jesus intended for the ceremony to be conducted at times other than the evening of his death (replacing Passover). Up for interpretation, I suppose.

As in just the one time? Or as a once per year replacement?

Once per year. He commanded his disciples to "do this in remembrance of me."

There is no mention of how often, but given Jesus allergy to ritual as opposed to genuine acts of worship, it seems reasonable that this would not be a commonplace thing.

Again... interpretation.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#522

Post by michaelsbradley »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #500
ralfd wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including rightfully limiting the Latin mass Why is that a political thing though? The mass of the roman church was for centuries (almost all it’s history?) in latin.

Imagine going to church every Saturday or Sunday and sitting through a 1 hour service that you don't understand. The conservative side of the church has decided that it hates change, and since the Latin services were mostly cast aside, that's a bad thing to them.

Understanding the Mass and uniting in prayer with the Eucharistic sacrifice are one thing, being fluent in Latin is another thing.

One does not necessarily imply or require or constrain the other.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#523

Post by seanw444 »

a_e_k wrote: post #39
mschuster91 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree. It's going to get interesting - by numbers, the Church is shrinking in its core lands of Europe, and it's growing in Africa, South America and Asia, but that isn't even closely reflected in political realities and the amount and importance of cardinals.

I'll admit that I am curious about if we'll ever see a conservative African pope.

I see a lot of people in my news circle hoping for Robert Sarah, who seems to be exactly that.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#524

Post by slowmovintarget »

exe34 wrote: post #509
slowmovintarget wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question, but perhaps, open your heart to recent research... There is neural tissue in and around the heart. There are studies showing personality changes and memory inculcation as a result of heart transplants. Recipients end up with memory and sometimes traits of the donor. Are we sure? No. But neither should you be. Question but be open to answers you may not expect.

I'm not sure, but I'd bet £200 that within 10 years it'll still not be something that 99.9% of medical schools will teach. just because I'm not sure, it doesn't make both cases remotely equally likely.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31739081/

Re: Pope Francis has died

#525

Post by numbers_guy »

ZeroClickOk wrote: post #394
numbers_guy wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop talking in such general terms. No Catholics I know have been shaken by anything Pope Francis did. I have been educated in a Catholic school, which also served as a Catholic seminary, and I never heard Pope Francis say anything that was not in line with the catechism that we were taught back then.

According to the rules in the first post, I cannot talk about politics in this thread, but the summary is, the political inclinations that he displayed were "uncomfortable".

Said political inclinations were written in the Catechism before any of us knew who Pope Francis was.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#526

Post by numbers_guy »

kelnos wrote: post #442
numbers_guy wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop talking in such general terms. No Catholics I know have been shaken by anything Pope Francis did. I have been educated in a Catholic school, which also served as a Catholic seminary, and I never heard Pope Francis say anything that was not in line with the catechism that we were taught back then.

> No Catholics I know have been shaken by anything Pope Francis did. I'm not convinced that every Catholic you know constitutes a representative sample of Catholics worldwide.

If you look at my other posts, I acknowledge this and I am only replying to posts who pretend to speak for the whole worldwide Church.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#527

Post by gosub100 »

mantas wrote: post #365
dml2135 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on what you mean here? You seem to be alluding to a stance that Francis had towards Russia that I am not familiar with.

He said Ukraine should surrender. To Russia which wants to exterminate Ukraine as a nation, culture and language. Feel free to google for more details. There were multiple occurrences when he doubled-down on his words after backlash.

And if he rallied for war he'd be criticized just the same: "leader of the Christians is such a hypocrite advocating for killing .."

Re: Pope Francis has died

#528

Post by deadbabe »

russfink wrote: post #290
fleabitdev wrote: post #110

Last year, an interviewer asked Francis how he envisages hell. His response stayed with me: “It’s difficult to imagine it. What I would say is not a dogma of faith, but my personal thought: I like to think hell is empty; I hope it is.”

“I like to think Hell is empty” might be a hopeful statement, as in he hopes nobody ever actually goes to Hell but that everyone, no matter how evil, repents in their dying moments and accepts the path of truth.

I like to think hell is empty because the people who would have been sent there for being foul and wicked are actually people with no souls: they are just p-zombies wandering the world inflicting harm. Thus, when they die, there is no actual soul being released, their matter just ceases to function.

This could also explain why some simple creatures, with no real conscious experience, don’t overpopulate heaven or Hell: they have no souls with which to populate it with. They are just matter, temporarily constructed into some form resembling a living thing.

So hell is empty, and evil is the result of soulless automatons created by accident in our world. So if you die and nothing else happens for you after, then you were a p-zombie, with no soul.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#529

Post by charonn0 »

arkey wrote: post #444
sneak wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is impossible to reconcile the idea of an omnipotent god that is simultaneously good and permits people to be tortured for eternity. Perhaps he chose the “god is good” over the “god, despite being able, will not prevent billions of reasonable and decent people from suffering eternally” fork in the road. You can’t logically choose both, and if you’re the pope, you probably had better have a belief in the goodness o…

People often think of hell as an active punishment form God, but for us humans it's not. Hell, whatever it is, is where people end up when they'd rather be there than be with Christ. God will never force you to love Him and accept Him. He gives you the choice, the rest is up to you.

Unless you live(d) in a time and place where Christian teachings were unavailable to you. Which accounts for a large majority of the humans who have ever lived.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#530

Post by mrj »

grandempire wrote: post #64
hliyan wrote: post #13

I wonder whether we will have another Jesuit Pope. Jesuits are supposed to be generally very education focused, more progressive (especially w.r.t science) and stand less on ceremony. I know nothing about how the College of Cardinals work, but if they're anything like other political voting bodies, one of two outcomes are possible: a swing to the Right (and toward tradition), recognizing the current balance of power…

> especially w.r.t science I would like to know more. My impression is that most Christian institutions have long ago disentangled from scientific debate - providing interpretative value rather than alternative science. This is part of a larger trend to focus their scope and mission in modern life. Have the last few popes made comments on scientific issues? (The exception is evangelical Americans.)

I went to a Jesuit university. The way it was explained to me could be simplified to: God wouldn't lie to us, God made nature, so then scientific discoveries therefore teach us more about nature and God. When a new discovery threatens old teachings, the Jesuits convene and figure out how to incorporate this new understanding into their beliefs, strengthening them rather than threatening.

I found it inspiring. I'm genuinely sad about the Pope's passing. He was a man who followed the teachings as he understood them.

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