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How University Students Use Claude

anthropic.com

521–530 of 601 posts

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#521
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder to what extent this is students who would have stuck it out now taking the easy way and to what extent it’s students who would have just failed now trying to stick it out.

This is an extremely important question, and you’ve phrased it nicely. We’re either handicapping our brightest, or boosting our dumbest. One part is concerning, the other encouraging .

The brightest will evaluate the tradeoffs properly or will have education that will give them proper evaluations of AI. Maybe some bright people will be handicapped, but it won't be the bright'est'. That handicap on the bright could also lead to new forms of talent and multi-faceted growth.

What percentage of the dumbest will be boosted? What makes a person dumb? If they are productive and friendly, isn't that more important?

What percentage of the dumbest will fall farther or abandon heavy learning even earlier?

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#522
post #365
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this students don't pass, do they? I don't think that's a particularly hard concern. It will take a bit more, but will learn the lesson (or drop out). I'm more worried about those who will learn to solve the problems with the help of an LLM, but can't do anything without one. Those will go under the radar, unnoticed, and the problem is, how bad is it, actually? I would say that a lot, but then I realize I'm p…

As someone already said, parents used to be concerned that kids wouldn't be able to solve maths problems without a calculator, and it's the same problem, but there's a difference between solving problems _with_ LLMs, and having LLMs solve it _for you_. I don't see the former as that much of a problem.

>As someone already said, parents used to be concerned that kids wouldn't be able to solve maths problems without a calculator

Were they wrong? People who rely too much on a calculator don't develop strong math muscles that can be used in more advanced math. Identifying patterns in numbers and seeing when certain tricks can be used to solve a problem (verses when they just make a problem worse) is a skill that ends up being beyond their ability to develop.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#523
post #422
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's literally "let me paste the assignment into ChatGPT and see what it spits out, change a few words and submit that". My wife is an accounting professor. For many years her battle was with students using Chegg and the like. They would submit roughly correct answers but because she would rotate the underlying numbers they would always be wrong in a provably cheating way. This made up 5-8% of her students. Now she…

ChatGPT is laughably terrible at double entry accounting. A few weeks ago I was trying to use it to figure out a reasonable way to structure accounts for a project given the different business requirements I had. It kept disappearing money when giving examples. Pointing it out didn’t help either, it just apologized and went on to make the same mistake in a different way.

>Pointing it out didn’t help either, it just apologized and went on to make the same mistake in a different way.

They really should modify it to take out that whole loop where it apologizes, claims to recognize its mistake, and then continues to make the mistake that it claimed to recognize.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#524
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone already said, parents used to be concerned that kids wouldn't be able to solve maths problems without a calculator, and it's the same problem, but there's a difference between solving problems _with_ LLMs, and having LLMs solve it _for you_. I don't see the former as that much of a problem.

>As someone already said, parents used to be concerned that kids wouldn't be able to solve maths problems without a calculator Were they wrong? People who rely too much on a calculator don't develop strong math muscles that can be used in more advanced math. Identifying patterns in numbers and seeing when certain tricks can be used to solve a problem (verses when they just make a problem worse) is a skill that ends u…

>Were they wrong? People who rely too much on a calculator don't develop strong math muscles that can be used in more advanced math.

Yes. People who rely too much on a calculator weren't going to be doing advanced math anyway.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#525
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this students don't pass, do they? I don't think that's a particularly hard concern. It will take a bit more, but will learn the lesson (or drop out). I'm more worried about those who will learn to solve the problems with the help of an LLM, but can't do anything without one. Those will go under the radar, unnoticed, and the problem is, how bad is it, actually? I would say that a lot, but then I realize I'm p…

How many people are "good drivers" outside their home town? I am not that old, but old enough to remember all adults taking wrong turns trying to find new destinations for the first time.

>How many people are "good drivers" outside their home town?

My wife is surprisingly good at remembering routes, she'll use the GPS the first time, but generally remembers the route after that. She still isn't good at knowing which direction is east vs west or north/south, but neither am I.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#526

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

[deleted]

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#527
post #187

I've used AI for one of the best studying experiences I've had in a long time: 1. Dump the whole textbook into Gemini, along with various syllabi/learning goals. 2. (Carefully) Prompt it to create Anki flashcards to meet each goal. 3. Use Anki (duh). 4. Dump the day's flashcards into a ChatGPT session, turn on voice mode, and ask it to quiz me. Then I can go about my day answering questions. The best part is that if…

Flash cards are some of the least effective ways to learn FYI and retain info.

My family member is a third year med student (US) near the top of their class and makes heavy heavy use of Anki (which is crowdsourced in the Med School community to create very very comprehensive decks).

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#528

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

> I think the issue is that it's so tempting to lean on AI.

This is not the root cause, it's a side effect.

Student's cheat because of anxiety. Anxiety is driven by grades, because grades affect failure. To detect cheating is solving the wrong problem. If most of the grades did not directly affect failure, student's wouldn't be pressured to cheat. Evaluation and grades have two purposes:

1. Determine grade of qualification i.e result of education (sometimes called "summative")

2. Identify weaknesses to aid in and optimise learning (sometimes called "formative")

The problem arises when these two are conflated, either by combining them and littering them throughout a course, or when there is an imbalance in the ratio between them i.e too much of #1. Then the pressure to cheat arises, the measure becomes the target, and focus on learning is compromised. This is not a new problem, student's already waste time trying to undermine grades through suboptimal learning activities like "cramming".

The funny thing is that everyone already knows how to solve cheating: controlled examination, which is practical to implement for #1, so long as you don't have a disruptive number of exams filling that purpose. This is even done in sci-fi, Spok takes a "memory test" in 2286 on Vulkan as a kind of "final exam" in a controlled environment with challenges from computers - it's still using a combination of proxy knowledge based questions and puzzles, but it doesn't matter, it's a controlled environment.

What's needed is a separation and balance between summative and formative grading, then preventing cheating is almost easy, and student's can focus on learning... cheating at tests throughout the course would actually have a negative affect on their final grade, because they would be undermining their own learning by breaking their own REPL.

LLMs have only increased the pressure, and this may end up being a positive thing for education.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#529
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder to what extent this is students who would have stuck it out now taking the easy way and to what extent it’s students who would have just failed now trying to stick it out.

This is an extremely important question, and you’ve phrased it nicely. We’re either handicapping our brightest, or boosting our dumbest. One part is concerning, the other encouraging .

>We’re either handicapping our brightest, or boosting our dumbest.

Honestly it seems like we're doing both most of the time. It's hard to only optimize resources for boosting the dumbest without taking them away from the brightest.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#530
post #399
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's literally "let me paste the assignment into ChatGPT and see what it spits out, change a few words and submit that". My wife is an accounting professor. For many years her battle was with students using Chegg and the like. They would submit roughly correct answers but because she would rotate the underlying numbers they would always be wrong in a provably cheating way. This made up 5-8% of her students. Now she…

The solution is making all homework optional and having an old-school end of semester exam.

>The solution is making all homework optional and having an old-school end of semester exam.

Not really. While doing something to ensure that students are actually learning is important, plenty of the smartest people still don't always test well. End of semester exams also tend to not be the best way to tell if people are learning along the way and then fall off part way through for whatever reason.

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