What if we made advertising illegal? • Hacker News Board

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#521

Post by milesrout » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:51 AM UTC

SebastianKra wrote: post #382

gameman144 wrote: post #249

This feels very similar in my mind to blanket concepts like "let's ban lobbying". There are certainly specific modes or practices in lobbying that are damaging to society, but lobbying itself (specifically, informing lawmakers about your specific perspective and desires) is a valid and desirable function. Likewise, advertising on its own at its core is useful: there might be something that adds value to your life tha…

> Likewise, advertising on its own at its core is useful: there might be something that adds value to your life that someone else is trying to provide and the only missing link is that you don't know about it. Journalists exist. The best way to learn about new products is through influencers/reviewers/experts in their field. I'd even say its superior, which is why advertising companies ~sponsor~ bribe influencers to…

There are a very few areas where there are good reviewers. Sadly most "reviewers" just repeat marketing materials, read stats from the box, and talk about themselves.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#522

Post by thayne » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:51 AM UTC

arrosenberg wrote: post #61

toomim wrote: post #10

This begs the question: how could you reliably distinguish advertising from other forms of free speech? The courts already distinguish "commercial speech" as a class of speech. Would we prevent all forms of commercial speech? What about a waiter asking you "would you like to try a rosé with that dish? It pairs very well together." Is that "advertising" that would need to be outlawed? What about giving out free sample…

It’s not speech that needs to be regulated, it’s broadcast (which should not have 1A protections at nearly the same level). Even if a waiter is giving recommendations, those are limited to the people at the table and there is clearly a mutual exchange of value. Broadcast (aka Industrial) advertising is something we accept, but not because it particularly benefits the viewer. It benefits the broadcaster and advertiser…

Does a website count as broadcast, since anyone with an internet connection can access it (sans the Great Firewall and similar)?

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#523

Post by milesrout » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:53 AM UTC

walleeee wrote: post #325

gameman144 wrote: post #249

This feels very similar in my mind to blanket concepts like "let's ban lobbying". There are certainly specific modes or practices in lobbying that are damaging to society, but lobbying itself (specifically, informing lawmakers about your specific perspective and desires) is a valid and desirable function. Likewise, advertising on its own at its core is useful: there might be something that adds value to your life tha…

> lobbying itself (specifically, informing lawmakers about your specific perspective and desires) is a valid and desirable function. If it were a truly demotic activity you would have a point. But as it is, lobbying (in the US at least) is almost exclusively by/for large/moneyed interests, and the part of it which isn't is considerably less effective than that which is.

Every time you communicate something to a politician, submit a submission on a Bill, or write a letter to the editor criticising a political policy, you are lobbying.

That you don't bother engaging and others do doesn't give them an unfair advantage.

That being said, the US system sounds like a shitshow of bribery and corruption.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#524

Post by cloudbonsai » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:53 AM UTC

x62Bh7948f wrote: post #482

This idea immediately reminded me of “The Girl Who Was Plugged In” by James Tiptree https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_Who_Was_Plugged_In

This novella is a masterpiece and needs rediscovery.

> The protagonist (P. Burke) is a lonely, severely depressed teenager. After a failed suicide attempt, an international telecommunication company offers her a new job -- to become a remote operator of a public celebrity. She is given a new persona "Delphi", and her new job is to buy products publicly to advertise them.

The protagonist is basically a Youtuber/Instagram influencer/TikTok streamer today.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#525

Post by justthinkzzz » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:53 AM UTC

People already give away free advertising for free by wearing branded clothing. That is more beneficial to companies then actual ads on screens.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#526

Post by mindwok » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:53 AM UTC

wat10000 wrote: post #413

gameman144 wrote: post #249

This feels very similar in my mind to blanket concepts like "let's ban lobbying". There are certainly specific modes or practices in lobbying that are damaging to society, but lobbying itself (specifically, informing lawmakers about your specific perspective and desires) is a valid and desirable function. Likewise, advertising on its own at its core is useful: there might be something that adds value to your life tha…

Anyone who has found out about a useful product through advertising that you wouldn’t have know about otherwise, purchased it, and been pleased with your purchase, raise your hand. Anyone? This whole “advertising is useful” thing sounds like the spherical cow of marketing to me. It might make sense in abstract but it doesn’t reflect reality.

Many people, otherwise advertising wouldn’t work at all and the industry wouldn’t exist. Even if you hear it via some other source, they may have heard of it via some form of advertising.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#527

Post by cyberax » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:53 AM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #490

Ferret7446 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imagine a world without advertising I can't because a world with magic and world peace is more realistic and believable. It's impossible. How do you even define advertising? If you define it conservatively, then advertising will skirt through the loopholes. If you define it liberally, then you have an unfair, authoritarian system that will definitely be selectively enforced against political enemies. And in all cas…

I think the article mentions banning “sold advertising”, which seems like a fair way to go about it. You can still advertise your own stuff, but you cannot pay a marketplace to do it for you any more. Advertising would by necessity become a lot more local.

How would I advertise my app? Or my TV brand?

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#528

Post by milesrout » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:54 AM UTC

lukev wrote: post #40

hedayet wrote: post #14

Advertising has consequences, and I’m not a big fan of it, but it’s also a necessary evil. It’s easy to dismiss advertising as just a profit engine for ad platforms, but that’s only part of the picture. At its best, advertising plays a meaningful role in solution and product discovery, especially for new or niche offerings that users wouldn’t encounter otherwise. It also promotes fairer market competition by giving s…

I disagree. Advertising is a zero-sum game. If nobody advertised, every solution would be equally discoverable via search and word-of-mouth. It's only when some actors start advertising that the others must as well, so they don't fall behind. And so billions of dollars are spent that could have gone to making better products. It's basically the prisoner's dilemma at scale.

If nobody advertised then first mover advantage would be everything. How would a new product come to market and compete with no way of getting new users except word of mouth?

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#529

Post by msla » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:54 AM UTC

idle_zealot wrote: post #477

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you can do relatively easily is to control the physical format of advertising. For example, consider how rare "billboards" are outside of the USA. Or towns in various places that prohibit signage that is not in the same plane as the edge of the building (i.e. no sticky-outy signs). Or for that matter, consider Berlin, which has banned all non-cultural advertising on public transportation. Yes, there's some edge…

You start conservatively, and set up a watchdog to investigate loopholes and punish those abusing them. Fund an astroturfing campaign? Congrats, that's 10 years and a hefty fine to fund the continued operation of the watchdog. You can make promotional material and publish it, but it has to be clearly labeled and opt-in, not bundled with access to something else. The problem isn't small-time promotion that's difficult…

Well, you have to convince people to vote for you and your policies.

How would you do that?

How exactly would that work?

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#530

Post by zhyder » Sun, Apr 06, 2025, 1:55 AM UTC

One of the things that bothers me most about advertising is that we sell attention to the highest bidder. It happened before online ads too but online ad networks 'perfected' the bidding process. And I say this as someone who's made much of my wealth indirectly off of such ad networks.

It means the expensive product/service gets your attention, coz it can afford a higher bid, instead of the one that's better for you. It also sets a high floor on prices.

To some extent the bidding process was needed when there was inherent scarcity of inventory to place information (e.g. billboards or the 1 local radio station), but there's no scarcity online. Why can't we just have a web where product/service info is listed, and people can seek that info through some search engine?