Earlier quoted context omitted.
Marvel cinematic university?
You wouldn't believe what else you can learn there.
I learned a new definition of boredom.
The Frontend Treadmill
521–530 of 722 posts
Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#522Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's fascinating, and I had no idea web dev influencers were so big. I checked, and there really are people with millions of followers doing development. Personally, the idea of learning anything related to coding through a video is extremely frustrating. It's a text medium. I want to look at things, take time, think it over, compare code, follow references, look up functions. That people like video formats isn't r…
>, the idea of learning anything related to coding through a video is extremely frustrating. It's a text medium. I want to look at things, take time, think it over, compare code, follow references, look up functions. That people like video formats isn't really surprising to me since it's everywhere, but I still don't fully understand the appeal. I like (some) programming videos and I'll give my perspective as someone…
Definitely. As long as the videos are uncut, they can be a confidence booster that I'll be able to replicate the result, because I can follow them knowing they won't skip over those little steps that often go without mention. Well, unless they're being sneaky with hotkeys.
Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#523> Whatever framework you choose will be obsolete in 5 years. I've been writing React professionally for over a decade at this point. I don't know what this guy's on about.
Same I’ve been writing React for 11 years now.
Before that I used Backbone on top of jQuery.
Before that I used jQuery.
Before that I used the document, but I still use the document.
I have barely had to learn anything each decade.
Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#524I have fallen in love with the simplicity of Rails recently. Sprinkle a bit of stimulus where you really need it. Hell slap a turbo here or there. And other than that? Pure HTML. It’s downright lovely. And it’ll still work fine 20 years from now.
100%, Turbo and stimulus will save projects from React/Vue hell for 95% of cases. The other 5% you can make isolated fancy JS stuff without it eating the entire frontend.
Or maybe HTMX
Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#525Vanilla JS and the default browser capabilities are quite incredible these days. Server-side templating (jinja2, twig etc.) + vanilla js and some library sprinkle (htmx, graphs) will cover 99% of all web use cases and continue working 10 years later faster than most new stuff.
I recently adapted 3 open source dashboards made in react, alpine and vue to just vanilla JS for my use case and saw at least 100x speed increase. Data rows that took 2~ seconds to render were visually instant. Granted, the original dashbboard code lacked some optimizations but the vanilla code I replaced it with didn't really do any magic to begin with — just got rid of the incredible overhead these frameworks introduce by default.
Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#526Earlier quoted context omitted.
I push back on stuff like this so developers who feel the feet on their throat from this culture can have some confidence to nudge the boot off. There goes my hero: https://youtu.be/EqWRaAF6_WY
I can tell you that your response is at least relevant for me because I happen to be working with Remix right now, not because of any influencers but just because I happen to be working on a Shopify project. I've seen lots of frameworks come and go and evolve, so I'm not surprised that this one changes a lot, but I always enjoy getting opinions from people with experience. Whether or not I'll end up resenting it in t…
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Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#527I've proposed an idea several times that I think might resolve this situation, but it's never received any real uptake and I can see some serious issues with the approach. Instead of building a "inner system" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner-platform_effect ) where the browser uses HTML, CSS, and Javascript to create interactive applications, or attempting to make a sandboxed and highly limited execution environ…
But now every app in those VMs needs to ship a TON of custom stuff: text rendering, accessibility, layout, etc.
Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#528I have recently been doing some upgrades to the build system for our FE code to swap out yarn for pnpm. I’m normally a backend engineer, but I’ve spent plenty of time in the JS mines. The most frustrating thing about dipping in to the FE is that it seems like literally everything is deprecated . Oh, you used the apollo CLI in 2022? Bam, deprecated, go learn how to use graphql-client or whatever, which has a totally d…
> Meanwhile in JS it seems like you can’t go more than six months without having to rewrite something. It’s bananas. The thing is, it's totally possible, but it requires restraint and properly caring about what you pull into your project. Back in the vanilla JS/jQuery days, when I got started, our "dependency management" was basically copy-paste .js files into a `vendor/` directory. Then nodejs/npm appeared (and bowe…
I'm a back-end dev, I've avoided being paid to do any front-end work (and/or my bosses have avoided paying me to do any front-end work? hahaha) for getting on a decade now. So no doubt front-end devs will cringe at what I'm about to say (not that I care!). But for the occasional personal front-end stuff that I still do, my "dependency management" is just "copy-paste versioned CDN script tags / CSS link-rel tags into my index.html file". Which is equivalent to (but better than) old-skool copy-pasting into a "vendor" directory" (which of course I also did, back in the day). And my "front-end build system" is just "write vanilla javascript in .js files and include it un-minified un-typescripted un-anything via script tags". I've got better things to do in my spare time, than deal with npm / gulp / yarn / whatever they've invented this week.
Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#529Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're mistaken. I can't comment on the quality of Kent C. Dodds' educational content, but his formal affiliation with Remix was short-lived. The courses that he sells have no apparent affiliation with Remix (the open source project or the company). Incidentally, Remix is an open source project started by the React Router devs to create more framework features around React Router. React Router is probably one…
> React Router is probably one of the most widely deployed JavaScript libraries ever and is the furthest thing imaginable from a project created by grifters to sell online courses. This is a funny example (to me) because in 2017, one of the two co-creators of React Router (Michael) came to my job and gave a two or three-day in-person training course on React. I think he also covered Redux and React Router. We had a g…
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Re: The Frontend Treadmill
#530Author misses the point.
There are now basically 2 answers:
- go with vanilla html js + some css stuff à la tailwind
- go with react for anything with more dynamic interaction
I am not a huge fan of either, but anything else will be costly either in hiring opportunity or in terms of “shit I can’t use that dependency in my xxx framework”