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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#521

Post by acdha »

chongli wrote: post #259
gnfargbl wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you offer an example of someone being jailed for "disagreeing with the extreme left on social media," or is this an alternative fact that you've acquired via osmosis? I am aware of people being jailed in the UK for making terrorist threats on social media, and arguably those prosecutions were inappropriate, but that doesn't appear to be what you're claiming.

All you have to do is search for it yourself. It’s not just UK citizens that are affected. They’re threatening to have US citizens extradited to the UK to face charges [1] for online speech that’s protected by the first amendment. [1] https://thenationaldesk.com/news/americas-news-now/uk-author...

Your own article notes that it is “it’s highly unlikely that British authorities will go after U.S.-based social media posters like Musk for violating British laws in an online space.”

Similarly, the links again show that you are whitewashing the events: those people jailed weren’t “disagreeing with the extreme left” (every leftist would be in jail since they disagree with each other constantly) but for things like saying they were going to a violent protest and advocating burning down hotels where refugees were living. Going to a highly plausible specific threat is quite far beyond disagreement.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#522

Post by extraduder_ire »

gnfargbl wrote: post #232
bluGill wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of different ways to do business. UK is unlikely to be able to ban the iphone, and I doubt Apple has much business in the UK. As such they can lay off all workers in the UK "because of legal issues" and the workers feel the pain. They can still sell in the UK through third parties, and go to the EU if you need warranty work

Except perhaps for people living near the border in Northern Ireland, "going to the EU" for warranty work is a completely unfeasible suggestion. It's not exactly a short or cheap journey for most of us!

Ireland doesn't have a single apple store in it. The closest thing that exists are stores in their authorised reseller program.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#523

Post by afro88 »

TrueDuality wrote: post #441
bilekas wrote: post #79

> requires that Apple creates a back door that allows UK security officials unencumbered access to encrypted user data worldwide How could this even be enforced if Apple pulls out cloud services of the UK ? It's such a ridiculous request, the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good.

As long as Apple has a business presence in the UK, they are subject to the laws the UK imposes on them even if they're vastly overreaching and impose on other government's citizens. Not supporting cloud services wouldn't be sufficient to avoid the compliance requirement, they would have to formerly stop doing business in the UK. Looking at the market size that might be a decision that Apple is willing to make as it…

The decision wouldn't involve just market size, but their Irish tax haven as well. They're not going to pull out of the UK entirely.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#524

Post by extraduder_ire »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #427
idle_zealot wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Overton Window has shifted.

The Clipper Chip died a quick death back when the Clinton administration wanted it, as the push back against it was pretty strong. Now? Seems like a matter of time before every form of electronic communication has a dozen different back, side, and front doors into it.

I don't think that was mandated to be used for every device though. It was also shown to perform key escrow in secret and had its security defeated before it launched.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#525

Post by kergonath »

ekianjo wrote: post #475
RobotToaster wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth noting that one of the ways the five eyes get around domestic spying laws is to spy on each other's citizens. So the CIA spy on British citizens the UK government want to spy on, and GCHQ spy on American citizens the US government want to spy on. So this would indirectly allow the US government to spy on US citizens (even more than it already does, anyway)

Why do you think 3 letters agencies care about the law? Ever heard of Snowden leaks?

Didn’t these leaks precisely show that the agencies were effectively above the law? I mean, they tried to make it look like they were abiding by the regulations, but effectively tried every work around they could come up with. Including subcontracting domestic spying to foreign intelligence agencies, using the exact mechanism the parent mentioned? It seems you’re contradicting them by making their point.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#526

Post by koiueo »

koiueo wrote: post #445
aunty_helen wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you using Russia and China as examples of the bad guys here. They're not asking for global access to everyones data, the UK is. The UK are the bad guys.

Because russia is a bag guy? (Idk about China, but considering they support russia...) Have you been living under a rock?

I'll be explicit: russia is a terrorist state. Majority of russian population supports the unprovoked genocidal war it currently wages on Ukraine.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#527

Post by karel-3d »

Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

UK government wants a backdoor access to all users, worldwide, irrespective of their nationality.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#528

Post by autoexec »

taurknaut wrote: post #500
ekianjo wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think 3 letters agencies care about the law? Ever heard of Snowden leaks?

I think stuff like Parallel Reconstruction show that they do care about the law. They care about working around it.

That doesn't mean they care about the law, it just means that they care about maintaining the public perception that they care about the law. They're perfectly happy to keep up the pretense as long as they can still get what they want anyway, even if they have to add a couple extra inconvenient steps to the process. What they won't do is allow the law to stop them from getting what they want.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#529

Post by reverendsteveii »

Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

You're assuming people's actual motivations match up with their stated motivations. If your motivation is to be re-elected to a government post by appearing to be tough on terrorism and drugs, every possible outcome of this course of action benefits you. Apple leaves? They were terrorist enablers and you're better off without them. Apple acquiesces? You're the David who took on Apple's goliath and won safety for everyone (again, regardless of whether this actually improves safety for anyone). Apple ignores you? You have an ongoing feud with Dangerous Big Tech that you can campaign and fundraise on for as long as it lasts.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#530

Post by pmlnr »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #503

For years, law enforcement pushed for encryption backdoors, arguing they were necessary to combat crime and terrorism. In the US, after Salt Typhoon compromised telecom networks—including court-authorized wiretap systems—the FBI has now (somewhat reluctantly, I think) started advising government officials to use end-to-end encrypted apps like Signal and WhatsApp to protect themselves . [1] I think the UK government i…

No, the government is always exempt. Citizens shouldn't be allowed e2e, the government, that's ok.
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