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Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

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Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helicopter flies at 200ft. Planes landing have to traverse through 200ft. Therefore vertical separation impossible.

This heli route is just crazy.

Agreed. Seems that underlying all of this is "people doing inadvisable things because they can".

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being allowed to re-enter the program is just insane.

Indeed. Imagine if prospect lawyers were prevented from retaking the bar exam.

ATC doesn't get to redo traffic flying in the air.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their candidate success rate would probably be higher if they weren’t rejecting the vast majority of their most-qualified applicants for reasons that are clearly pretextual: https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-...

That's shocking and disturbing, and is pretty much a textbook example of exactly the type of thing opponents to DEI have been referring to for how DEI and Affirmative Action result in a lowering of the bar. They explicitly structured things so that ATC hiring was pre-restricted for non-cognitive (e.g. merit) reasons, and failed out candidates that scored a perfect score on the cognitive test on the basis of their dem…

ATC (as well as most government jobs) are a real case of "you get what you pay for". When you bring wages down so low that educated engineers don't want to work your job, your options are to lower the qualifications or leave empty seats.

DEI might have contributed to this, but we wouldn't be hiring unqualified people in the first place if America could naturally compete for talent. The lesson learned seems to be less about the dangers of diversity and more about how the feds aren't paying the industry rate for professionals.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#524
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition, ATC is not allowed to go on strike, limiting the degree to which they can bargain for better working conditions, pay, etc.

Then why is there an ATC union if, apparently, it can't affect any change?

There is a law that the govt has to negotiate in good faith. Presumably while they could say "no" to everything, it would be hard to prove that was "good faith" if the union takes them to court.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#525
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring controllers is not easy. A friend's daughter just went through the hiring process. She graduated from college with an appropriate degree right as COVID hit. Her FAA application wasn't accepted for four years. This past summer she did the four-week interactive online courses. Applicants must pass this and may not re-enter the program if they do not. After that she did the six-week courses in Oklahoma City. Agai…

Their candidate success rate would probably be higher if they weren’t rejecting the vast majority of their most-qualified applicants for reasons that are clearly pretextual: https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-...

Wow.

I thought Trump instantly blaming DEI was ridiculous in this case but I’m somewhat reconsidering.

How much less of a shortage of ATCs would we have now if it wasn’t for that debacle?

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#526

To put this in perspective, this is the first fatal crash of a US commercial airliner in 16 years (Colgan Air Flight 3407 on February 12, 2009) and the first fatal commercial airliner crash in the United States in 12 years (since Asiana Airlines Flight 214 on July 6, 2013). We like to throw shade at Boeing, the FAA etc, but this is still an incredible accomplishment, especially given the explosive growth of traffic o…

Can you clarify the difference between these?

> first fatal crash of a US commercial airliner

> first fatal commercial airliner crash in the United States

Is it that the 2009 crash was a US-manufactured plane while the 2013 crash was not manufactured in the US but happened in the US?

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#527

"FAA Got Rid of Its Leader Before D.C. Plane Crash—Thanks to Elon Musk": * https://newrepublic.com/post/190942/faa-no-leader-dc-plane-c... "FAA Administrator Quit on Jan. 20 After Elon Musk Told Him to Resign": * https://www.thedailybeast.com/faa-chief-michael-whitaker-qui... "The FAA is facing a major crisis without a leader because Elon Musk pushed him out* * https://www.theverge.com/news/603113/faa-chief-musk-dc-p…

Gotta find a way to blame every tragedy on the politicians we don't like, huh? Trump is out there blaming Biden's administration for hiring bad ATC under the banner of DEI. Meanwhile, his detractors blame him and Musk for letting go of some FAA administrator.

But of couse neither of those explanations are likely to hold water. The sad, mundane reality is these people probably lost their lives due to a miscommunication or misunderstanding between ATC and the helicopter pilots. And this political mudslinging will probably get in the way of us ever implementing process changes so it doesn't happen again.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their candidate success rate would probably be higher if they weren’t rejecting the vast majority of their most-qualified applicants for reasons that are clearly pretextual: https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-...

Wow. I thought Trump instantly blaming DEI was ridiculous in this case but I’m somewhat reconsidering. How much less of a shortage of ATCs would we have now if it wasn’t for that debacle?

> How much less of a shortage of ATCs would we have now if it wasn’t for that debacle?

Probably not much, considering the biggest constraining factor is pay. For example, San Carlos airport is shutting down ATC entirely because they can't pay anyone enough to live locally to the tower: https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/bay-area-airport-losing-...

There would be no problem filling the seats if the compensation was handsome and attractive. But we all know how federal workers are compensated, even when lives are on the line.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct them to land in the best location and make sure all other aircraft are on non-intersecting flight paths. What exactly is ATC doing that software isn't able to? How many options are there for handling emergencies with aircraft now? You pretty much just have either land ASAP or circle to burn fuel and then land.

Obviously you’re not a pilot. It might be helpful for you to listen to a few ATC transcripts of emergency situations.

It does seem like the routine could be automated more, no?

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#530
post #483

"Trump blames diversity rules under his predecessors, saying he believes people were hired for air traffic control roles who were not qualified - but offers no evidence for this" From the BBC. I swear to god they made 4chan president of America.

There is some evidence for this, unfortunately

https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-...

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