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New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

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Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in countries that are not free market countries.

20,500 Americans died of hunger in 2022.

Malnutrition is not the same thing.

Drug addicts and alcoholics often are malnourished - not because food is withheld from them, but because they are more interested in drugs and alcohol than food. The same goes for seriously ill people.

Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether state-funded institutions and unions are more corrupt than private enterprise is an empirical question. Do you have empirical data to back this up?

Biden's $7.5 billion investment in EV charging has only produced 7 stations in two years. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/03/28/... I've never heard of a private company that inept and corrupt.

You know the White House isn't personally building these charging stations, yes? The money is available and awarded to state entities that have to approve and bid out contracts, which come with their own set of local legislation that slow down the process. The Biden administration claims the process will advance faster now that states are enacting their own legislation and rules regarding charging stations. And you can guess that some states, operating on partisan lines, might not want to do anything that benefits the Biden administration--why care about their constituents' interest in the future when you can deny the opposition a win now?

Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few programmers I know spend their time devising logical theorems. They spend their time plumbing and engineering systems.

But how's that relevant to this?

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Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#525

How much of a comp boost would an average NYT tech worker get if the union succeeded? Let's say 10% for the sake of the argument. Please correct me if I'm way off. Wouldn't they be able to get a much higher comp by interviewing with other local tech firms? If so, why don't they? Seems more effective than waiting and hoping for a small increase through the union.

This is such a weird response. Do you collectively interview for other jobs? No. Would you tell any other union this? No. Collectively bargain for your current job and raise the standards for everyone now and in the future. I don't know why tech is so hyper-individualist.

Jeez why do people think I'm against the union? This is a forum for asking questions and understanding the world. I truly didn't mean to discourage unionization, I was curious about the thinking behind joining the union. It's sad that even on a tech forum people assume things about each other's political opnions instead of discussing.

TLDR: I'm not telling anyone what to do.

Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thing is impossible to control for, though. How can you tell whether someone's success or lackthereof (including via degree of responsibility) comes from earnest evaluation of merit or social bias? I have a difficulty imagining trusting any kind of confident assessment of the bias at hand.

Yeah it's really difficult, but that doesn't mean you should just give up and take the average. There was a case recently in the UK where Next (high street clothing chain) were paying their warehouse staff more than their shop staff for (apparently) similar work. The shop workers had a higher proportion of female workers than the warehouse workers (something like 70% vs 50%). Next claimed this was because the market…

The IT department isn't doing comparable work, so of course that wouldn't work.

Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But IMHO people should just find a different job, there are plenty available that pay better. Genuine question, why is that better? There are plenty of reasons why employees might be overall ok with the job and prefer to work out improvements in specific areas. The generally accepted implicit rationale of all of the accommodation needing to be done by the employees(including finding another job) is honestly puzzlin…

Unions are not effective at getting you to high comps. They will only get you to a middle of the road comp. The seniority based structure is effectively a penalty on high achievers. Why should a union member be paid more just because they've worked there longer? Big tech is a fantastic example of employment working without unions.

But unions don't automatically imply seniority based wages, or even uniform wages. The SAG and the NFL players unions are the most obvious examples.

Also the last two years should have taught the tech rank and file that the good times don't always last. As much as we'd like to believer we all are 10x rockstar devs, the reality is that an overwhelming majority are not. Further, even being the 'best of the best' engineer is no guarantee that you won't be screwed over by management. Woz is a highly visible example and I guarantee you that the odds of anyone on HN(let alone the overall tech industry) being a better engineer are essentially zero.

Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#528
post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biden's $7.5 billion investment in EV charging has only produced 7 stations in two years. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/03/28/... I've never heard of a private company that inept and corrupt.

You know the White House isn't personally building these charging stations, yes? The money is available and awarded to state entities that have to approve and bid out contracts, which come with their own set of local legislation that slow down the process. The Biden administration claims the process will advance faster now that states are enacting their own legislation and rules regarding charging stations. And you c…

You're describing inefficiency and corruption.

Also, Washington State is completely controlled by the Democrats - all three branches of the state government. Where are the charging stations? What about the other Democrat run states?

Do you know of any private company that moves that slowly?

I don't think it took years and $45 billion for Musk to install a national network of charging stations. Heck, even the local supermarket put in their own charging station.

Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Women, who make up 41% of the Tech Guild, earn 12% less on average than men > * Black women and Hispanic or Latina women, who make up just over 6 percent of the Tech Guild, make 33% less than white men in the unit > * Black workers, who make up 7 percent of the union, earn 26% less than white workers Do they work equivalent jobs with equivalent experience?

It's funny, every hedge fund and tech startup I've ever worked at since roughly 2001 very proudly boasts about how they pay women more than the men. But as my career goes on into the years I find that I'm working with less women and less minorities and not more. Despite the best of efforts... If I were to look for evidence though, I would point things squarely at the interview process... In the past if you could oper…

It isn't the interviewing.

I conducted around 500 interviews at my last company at all stages: initial screen, technical, architectural, etc. There were simply far more white men applying. (And this is in Atlanta where we have a highly bimodal racial distribution.)

It wasn't like we weren't bending over backwards to attract diverse candidates. I personally went to HBCUs on outreach programs, and there were dozens of annual Girls / Women Who Code programs and partnerships that other folks on my team participated in.

I was once even told I couldn't recommend someone for a role because they weren't diverse.

Look to undergraduate enrollment.

Re: New York Times tech workers union votes to authorize a strike

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> “Incredibly non-diverse”? No. They are in a better position than most Absolutely not. This is typical trickery of stats. They have diversity at lower levels. But unlike SV almost no diversity at senior ranks. I think its past time that we consider janitorial and admin jobs as a win. If we have legions of educated minorities, why aren't they making it into executive roles at the NY Times? Here is the exec staff: ht…

I opened the link and filtered by executive. Thirteen people there: - 5 white men - 4 white women - 1 black man - 2 black women - 1 asian woman Pretending that a sample size of 12 should exactly reflect the diversity of the whole population of the country is just weird to me.

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