Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comes off as incredibly preachy about gender roles.
It is frankly just Freudian horseshit.
It reads like Jordan Peterson nonsense.
No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
521–530 of 600 posts
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#522Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely. But what is interesting is that the family structure doesn't breakdown. The Parents work themselves to the bone and send money back to help their Parents and Children in the village. The Grand Parents take care of the Grand Children. When the children grow up, depending upon the Parent's situation in the City, they move to the city to live with their parents and study/grow up there or if they are already…
But that's just an Industrial-stage family structure. Loosely speaking. It's not that interesting and not fair to compare that with post-industrial neoliberal societies in the West. (I'm East Asian American.)
I am not quite sure whether your comment is sarcasm or not.
But assuming it is not, this is exactly what i wanted to point out. Societies have changed but the fundamental Human values have not and so that should have been maintained in some form during the process of change. We are Biological organisms with the same desires/fears/emotions/feelings as our forefathers but only the societal context has changed. While we don't have to go full retrograde nor should we go to the other extreme of negating all structures which have brought us to this point. It is in this light that one should look at all current-day "social progress" issues.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#523Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would wager that in terms of percentage of population the situation in Africa is not that bad as in Western countries. Some very poor countries may suffer to a larger degree but not Africa as a whole. To give a counter example, take a look at India and China, the two most populous nations. In both cases there is a huge migration from rural to urban centers but Social expectations, Cultural norms, Family structure a…
> you have entire villages populated only by Grand parents and Grand children because the Parents are away working in the City Sounds lovely!
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#524Man I hate when people use the phrase “broken home” unironically. My parents divorced when I was young and I can assure the writer that both of my homes were always whole. Do you know what breaks a home? Two people who no longer want to live together being forced to cohabitate because of regressive notions of the what makes an effective family. Definitely preferred swapping weekends with each parent to having to list…
every experience is unique. It's simply that, as a statistic, a non-nuclear home setup is one disproportionately rife with instability, chaos, and sometimes abuse. My single parent did the best for me, but it'd be hard to convince there's a "whole" home, when there were some days where I had to fend for myself with rice and beans a 12 years old, or when rent gets too high and we ended up rooming together with a 2nd single parent family just to stay afloat.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#525Earlier quoted context omitted.
It may indeed be financially beneficial, but that is an arrangement they must both agree to.
Agreed. Afraid a lot of threads here are talking about different things. Casually dating for a while shouldn't carry a lot of responsibilities from either party. Yet as things deepen or carry on for extended periods, it's reasonable to expect a more equal division of labor.
these he-said she-said problems are hard to resolve with one party (and that is part of why those relationship forums have the worst advice ever). The issue here can lie anywhere from "they weren't aligned on how far they are in the relationship" to "she did not take into account the expenses he did pay but only remembered the refusals". The tone of the article makes the reader want to think the boyfriend was a selfish step parent who can't budget, but who knows the real truth?
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#526Earlier quoted context omitted.
When dating someone with children, but you don’t want to go all-in with that person, please just leave: you’re not only making the life of your partner miserable, but also destroy their child’s or children’s. You will invariably end up walking away at some point, and the children will witness all of the ensuing mess. If, however, you have an intention to stay, there is no reason to make a distinction between their mo…
He's made his expectations in the relationship clear. It's entirely up to her whether she accepts that or leaves. There's nothing "sexist" about that. The only sexism here is expecting a man to pay for dating by supporting her kids.
First, let's make a distinction between TFA and the comment I was replying to, which implied that dating a woman with children did not imply any responsibility towards her children.
And this is what I'm objecting: Dating someone with children does, in fact, imply that responsibility, because the children aren't involved in the decision of you dating their parent, yet are immediately affected by it. The children evidently have previously experienced a separation of their biological parents, and I have yet to meet someone that wasn't traumatised in one way or another by this. So if you enter a relationship with their parent without the honest intention to stay, you wilfully cause pain to children for your personal pleasure. Think about this for a moment, it isn't hyperbole.
On the other hand, if you actually mean it, love your partner, and want to build a shared future, there's no reason to draw this weird line between their money and yours; you're a family now after all. Obviously that doesn't mean you need to let someone take advantage of you! But that isn't what I'd call family either.
As I said: Dating someone with children has far more implications than sleeping around in your twenties. It requires commitment and readiness to build a stable, lasting relationship. It's absolutely okay to not be at this point (or never getting there), but please: Keep away from single parents, then. The consequences of your actions have long-lasting effects on their children.
Edit: Oh, and this:
> There's nothing "sexist" about that. The only sexism here is expecting a man to pay for dating by supporting her kids.
Nah, sorry. A comment that starts off by calling a grown up woman "Sweetie" and then proceeds to assume she must have been "impregnated" by three different men without any reason to think so, is just some misogynistic bullshit.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, dating a lady does not obligate you to support her children from other men. What a ridiculous take. Accepting their presence and being good to them, sure, but those aren't the same as being made to support them. If I started dating a woman and quickly asked her to fork over money to support my aging parents or my own family responsibilities, it would be rightly viewed as an unfair and manipulative emotional/finan…
that's the kind of attitude that forces women to reject her own children just so that she can find a new partner. sure, as long as dating only involves paying for the shared dinner whenever you spend time together, that doesn't create an obligation to do more, but as soon as you start supporting your partner beyond that, you have to accept that some of that support goes to the children.
>that's the kind of attitude that forces women to reject her own children just so that she can find a new partner.
It's a harsh reality, but reality nonetheless. kids are already on the decline. Many men may literally be unable to help support a family of 5, especially with all 3 kids being so young. You gotta swing for the fences with someone who can do that support, or otherwise try to align with someone ready to bear that responsibility of a family they did not help birth.
Men are already absolutely worthless per unit on dating sites, so there won't be much sympathy on a male-oriented forum about dating troubles.
>as you start supporting your partner beyond that, you have to accept that some of that support goes to the children.
I suppose that's why many partners pass on a potential partner with children. May as well not pretend it's not a roadblock.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#528Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's made his expectations in the relationship clear. It's entirely up to her whether she accepts that or leaves. There's nothing "sexist" about that. The only sexism here is expecting a man to pay for dating by supporting her kids.
First, let's make a distinction between TFA and the comment I was replying to, which implied that dating a woman with children did not imply any responsibility towards her children. And this is what I'm objecting: Dating someone with children does, in fact, imply that responsibility, because the children aren't involved in the decision of you dating their parent, yet are immediately affected by it. The children evide…
>Dating someone with children does, in fact, imply that responsibility, because they children aren't involved in the decision of you dating their parent, yet are immediately affected by it.
really depends on too many factors to make a judgement call. Are they living together? Are the kids still in contact with their previous father? Have they discussed the kids to begin with and established barriers? is the relationship purely physical or are there emotional stakes?
It's a complex topic, and I wouldn't distill it down to "you inherit all the duties of your date".
>Think about this for a moment, it isn't hyperbole.
Situations in which this is justified:
- the mother hides the kids from you
- you establish barriers from the beginning and agree... until you don't
- You think you can handle the kids and it turns out you can't. Be it financially, emotionally, or otherwise. People can change their minds
- No matter your attempts, the kids simply never warm up to you. As you said, they are involved and a kids' opinion on a potential father will impact what may otherwise be a compatible couple.
The mother isn't necessarily a perfect actor. The kids certainly aren't. And you probably don't know your limits until you get some field training. I think a lot of your arguments hinge on this assumption that the default these days is a deep connection instead of casual dating with messy communication, and that the kids will fall in love with the potential father 100% of the time if the mother does.
> Dating someone with children has far more implications than sleeping around in your twenties
Ehh. There have been broken up relationships that were non-eventual for a child, and messy 20's relationships that haunt you and your partner for decades to come. Again, the situation is too complex to distill into "one is better/worse than the other".
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#529This whole article is talking about absentee fathers, but every example is listing why the mother left or kicked out the father. Nowhere in the article is mentioned the obvious common denominator - women are no longer utterly dependent on their husbands. People didn't stay together more often in the 50s because the couples were better, or because people were held to higher standards, it was because getting out of a t…
Im guessing you're one of these people described in the article that had a stable, family upbringing?
I would assume that to be true as well. As someone who had only one parent available, this is an annoyingly trite opinion. Of course socioeconomic effects contribute as well, this is again trivial.
Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
that's the kind of attitude that forces women to reject her own children just so that she can find a new partner. sure, as long as dating only involves paying for the shared dinner whenever you spend time together, that doesn't create an obligation to do more, but as soon as you start supporting your partner beyond that, you have to accept that some of that support goes to the children.
What you're saying is absurd. Millions of women manage to take on an active dating and relationship life, without rejecting their children or piling unreasonable obligations onto their partner. Yet somehow you seem to imply that men are at fault if they don't rapidly open their arms to responsibilities that they never created. It's called being and adult and regardless of sex/gender it means taking ownership of what'…
ok, i was exaggerating, but this has happened, maybe less in western cultures but in places where women are more dependent on having a husband that supports them.
when someone with children tries to find a new partner, that partner needs to be clear from the first day that if this relationship is going to go forward, the children are part of the deal. if the potential partner is not willing to accept that, then that is a non-starter for any long term relationship.
a single parent should not have to spend a year dating someone before it is clear whether their partner is willing to contribute to parenting the children if that is what they are looking for.
if a person is misleading their partner about their intentions then yes, they are absolutely at fault. do not date someone with children if that is not the route you want to go.
in any relationship it is the responsibility of each person to support their partner with all their personal issues. that is the purpose of a relationship. unless we are talking about a casual relationship, like being friends.