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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#521

Post by slantedview »

zdragnar wrote: post #40
vundercind wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

I think that's really underselling the political persecution that many have suffered in Cuba. It's far and away from just wanting reparations for land grabs. We have sanctions on Cuba for the same reason we have sanctions on Russia and Venezuela now- we don't want to fund what their government is doing, and allying with them gives us little to nothing in return. That said, it's pretty obvious that economic sanctions…

> We have sanctions on Cuba for the same reason we have sanctions on Russia and Venezuela

Many senior government officials over the years, including then Vice President Cheney, have plainly said that our interest in Venezuela is their oil. The sanctions, as in any country, are about wanting control over their resources.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#522

Post by nmfisher »

thegrim33 wrote: post #405
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia has a large number of ethnic groups, media and the far right claims similar issues. Using statistics on the background of prisoners, in Australia, most non-white ethnic groups have lower representation in prison compared to their percentage of the population when compared to white Australians. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

I wanted to verify the claim from your post/wikipedia link, as I don't believe it's true, but it's kind of a shame that wikipedia accepts a link to a 238 page report as the citation for a claim. It should at least refer to a specific page or section in the report. I don't want to hunt through hundreds of pages of this report to verify the claim. The report also doesn't have any sort of "conclusions" section so there'…

This definitely wasn't true when I was researching during university (~2005). That was obviously a long time ago, so it's very plausible that things have changed. However, I'd want to see some very well-vetted data to believe it.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#523

Post by armchairhacker »

gottorf wrote: post #201
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…

> History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups aren't able to integrate with the host society after multiple generations...

I wish we as a society could focus on people, not ethnic groups.

Deport people who can't assimilate, keep those who can. Figure out more accurate ways to determine who is who then skin color (or even things like personal taste).

Some stereotypes are backed by statistics, but there's a reason why all stereotypes are bad.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#524

Post by mongol »

refurb wrote: post #451
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As someone who isn't American, the dialogue around immigration in the US seems so odd. I've lived in six different countries (including the US) and in every other country there is no discussion around illegal immigrants - they are deported. It's not even a political issue. Having secure borders is a norm. Then I get to the US and there is this weird political debate around it. For someone reason it's "bad" to refer t…

Same dialog and divide exists here in Sweden. What some call illegal immigrants, others call paperless. So it is not a US-exclusive thing, and also here, the government have a hard time to execute deportions.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#525

Post by noduerme »

basementcat wrote: post #464
noduerme wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The path from Jewish emancipation in law to Jewish integration in practice was slowed and stymied by antisemitism at every turn, to greater and lesser degrees in different countries. It is hard to believe that Jews were ever regarded as true equals, broadly, in a country which willingly handed over so many to the Nazis. And of course in Spain, Jews were not full citizens and the practice of Judaism was simply forbidd…

Do you mean 1968? The Alhambra decree of 1492 in which Jews were ordered expelled from Spain was not formally rescinded until 1968. https://www.nytimes.com/1968/12/17/archives/1492-ban-on-jews... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree

No. The revocation of that law from the Reconquista didn't change anything immediately. Jewish residents, some of whom were the descendents of those who had been there since Roman and even Phoenecian times, were not recognized as full citizens in modern Spain until 1978.

https://www.jewishwikipedia.info/spain.html

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#526

Post by TMWNN »

noduerme wrote: post #518
TMWNN wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? I will speak from the perspective of one who emigrated to the US. Every new group is initially seen as "the other". After some point, however, employers that hire "the other" may find that they can pay them less because there is less demand to hire them, and thus benefit financially, they hire more. As other employers follow suit, over time the sa…

I'm not unsympathetic to the idea that mainstream Islam, since then 1970s, has morphed into something closer to extreme ultraorthodox Judaism or an extreme branch of Christianity. And this is certainly an obstacle to integration. But it is not irreversible, and I think in particular rejection by a foreign host culture serves to reinforce that extremism. North Korean defectors have a lot of trouble assimilating in Sou…

>The goal of a host society should be to study where the differences present themselves acutely and how to alleviate the pain and rejection of individual emigrants without accepting extremism or compromising the values of the culture into which they have immigrated.

Doesn't that presuppose the conclusion? That such emigrants should be received regardless of how fundamentally different their hard drives' formatting is? Why should that be?

If South Korea did not have strong familial and ethnic ties with North Koreans, it would never accept any NK defectors at all, and said differences in software would a big reason why. Heck, one can imagine the South putting up walls to prevent a large-scale influx of North Koreans after the Pyongyang regime collapses.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#527

Post by defrost »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #511
labrador wrote: post #107

I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…

> I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform Republicans are anti-illegal immigration, not anti-immigration. Trump's wife is an immigrant. > because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. It would only be a brain drain if you filter by skills or IQ. But if you just let everyone in, you can make things worse, not…

    The FBI data also shows a 59% reduction in the U.S. property crime rate between 1993 and 2022, with big declines in the rates of burglary (-75%), larceny/theft (-54%) and motor vehicle theft (-53%).

    Using the BJS statistics, the declines in the violent and property crime rates are even steeper than those captured in the FBI data. Per BJS, the U.S. violent and property crime rates each fell 71% between 1993 and 2022.
Of course the real reason for comments such as that above are that:

    Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when official data shows it is down.

    In 23 of 27 Gallup surveys conducted since 1993, at least 60% of U.S. adults have said there is more crime nationally than there was the year before, despite the downward trend in crime rates during most of that period.
The only real uptick of note in recent years has been the murder rate in the US during the COVID years, staying home and feeling under threat led to an increase in US citizen on citizen crime - not immigration.

Of course those with a blinkered news bubble (Fox, et al) tend to believe the hyped up overstaing of every low occurrence incidence and clutch their pearls in response.

The data says otherwise.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#528

Post by refurb »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #487
refurb wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who isn't American, the dialogue around immigration in the US seems so odd. I've lived in six different countries (including the US) and in every other country there is no discussion around illegal immigrants - they are deported. It's not even a political issue. Having secure borders is a norm. Then I get to the US and there is this weird political debate around it. For someone reason it's "bad" to refer t…

Did those countries have millions of people trying to go there?

Yes. Look at Europe. The UK's policy was "hostile environment", which was basically make staying illegally so hostile that people wouldn't come.

Canada loved to mock the US's treatment of illegal aliens (for political gain) until they started pouring into Canada. Even with those seeking asylum, Canada was pushing the "third country" agreement that people need to seek asylum in the first country they enter, not pass through the US and come to Canada. For illegal aliens, Canada is deporting record numbers,[2] but Canadians are pretty united in "you can't enter Canada illegally".

I lived in Asia and it was similar. Very strict tracking of legal immigrants and a robust process for removing people staying illegally.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Office_hostile_environmen...

[2]https://www.newcanadianmedia.ca/alarming-number-of-deportati...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#529

Post by murderfs »

harimau777 wrote: post #323
gottorf wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The majority of the people who came here from Europe in the 1700s and 1800s were laborers, factory workers, farmers, and other simple occupations. Why are we pulling up the ladder behind them? The welfare state did not exist in that time, so the cost of absorbing immigration was confined to acculturation. Immigrants had to quickly start generating value or perish. The incentives are radically different now and the…

What welfare costs are you referring to? Is there actual evidence that immigrants are a drain on the country? The information that I'm seeing suggests that they are a net positive in terms of taxes.

The response of cities to Texas bussing immigrants to them is pretty stark evidence: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/20/us/abbott-texas-migrant-b...

If they were a net gain, cities presumably wouldn't be playing hot potato with migrants by paying for one way bus tickets to "not here".

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#530

Post by refurb »

suzzer99 wrote: post #469
refurb wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who isn't American, the dialogue around immigration in the US seems so odd. I've lived in six different countries (including the US) and in every other country there is no discussion around illegal immigrants - they are deported. It's not even a political issue. Having secure borders is a norm. Then I get to the US and there is this weird political debate around it. For someone reason it's "bad" to refer t…

It's because the US has historically promulgated a nudge-nudge wink-wink attitude that could be summed up as "You can't come here legally, but if you get through our defenses, there will be plenty of work waiting for you." Many of us have sympathy for people who came in under this system who generally just want to work their asses off doing jobs no American wants to do. We're also talking about kids brought here as t…

> It's because the US has historically promulgated a nudge-nudge wink-wink attitude that could be summed up as "You can't come here legally, but if you get through our defenses, there will be plenty of work waiting for you."

Do you mean official US government policy? Do you have a source for that claim?

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