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Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

arstechnica.com

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Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#521

Post by ekianjo »

encomiast wrote: post #482
ekianjo wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you dont need copyright for that. by the time he died the family could have kept the memoirs and sold the exploitation rights to whoever wanted them. contracts are a thing.

Exactly where do "exploitation rights" come from if not copyright? Anyone who is going to enter a contract for these "exploitation rights" is going to want exclusive rights so others can't just share, republish, copy, etc. This is what copyright affords those who want to sell "exploitation rights"

lets say a publisher secures the manuscript after buying it and the copyright is gone at the author's death. As a first mover they will make most of the money during the first publishing round. By the time copycats end up on the market most of the market for the book was captured by the first mover.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#522

Post by rldjbpin »

as sad as this ruling is, simultaneously i see a wave of authors who have made their works freely available online, while selling hardcopies. this too from major technical publishers. see for instance ISLR (https://www.statlearning.com/).

speaking from a myopic view, in an age where source code can be freely distributed while maintaining ownership and rights*, why do literature have so much gatekeeping digitally?

while the authors that make their digital versions freely available bestow some trust on the other end (please don't print our work and sell it), simultaneously they can often benefit during the editorial process (many books are available this way before final publishing). moreover, if you write a work of fiction, nobody can run and create a movie based on it just because you can read the book for free.

this was a good opportunity to set precedence, but it has gone the other direction.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#523

Post by BSDobelix »

WalterBright wrote: post #497
BSDobelix wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, maybe the slaves did the less "worthy" jobs: >Slaves were a constant presence in ancient Egypt. Starting with the Old Kingdom (2613 - 2181 BC), slaves took on different roles. Some became soldiers, others scribes. https://www.worldatlas.com/ancient-world/were-slaves-used-to... >Does it? Yes it does, or do you have another argument against the Chinese wall or Belgium for example? Do you really want to argue again…

Slave labor can indeed accomplish things, but it cannot compete with free labor.

>but it cannot compete with free labor.

In terms of quality you are right, in terms of quantity you are wrong (in the past), but in this day and age replacing people (slaves) with machines changes the whole thing again.

So yes, free labor with specialized people and specialized machines and cheap energy is the most competitive.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#524

Post by BSDobelix »

WalterBright wrote: post #495
BSDobelix wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>History shows us that slave labor cannot compete with free labor. History shows us that you can build Pyramids and the Chinese wall with slave labor, probably not affordable with "free labor". But maybe we should also look at "modern slavery" that is "free labor" but without any chance to get another job or get reported to the police. >it's about forcible slave labor, forced with guns and whips. Worked incredible we…

> or get reported to the police That's not free labor. It's government coercion, again. > Worked incredible well for Belgium ??? > works incredible well for every warlord in west-Africa None of them have been able to compete in the free market.

>That's not free labor. It's government coercion, again.

That was the definition of "modern slaves", HOW you force people to be slaves is really not important.

https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/

>???

Rubber -> Car-tires from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Free_State

>None of them have been able to compete in the free market.

If you can sell your good's at the cheapest prices you compete very well in the "free market", there is also coltan in Brazil, Australia and China, but DRC sells the cheapest.

https://globalforestcoalition.org/the-dark-side-of-technolog...

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#525

Post by ben_w »

ryandrake wrote: post #80
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #25

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily mu…

I believe in hundreds, maybe thousands of years, after humanity has finally evolved past our current monkey mentality, future historians will look back at this time period in awe: "They had the technology to make the sum of all human knowledge available to everyone... And they blew it! Further, they had the means to feed everyone, clothe everyone, house everyone, but they just walked away in the other direction, pure…

> If Star Trek Replicators were invented today, we're so stupid we'd outlaw them.

Related, I'm surprised how fast people stopped worrying about 3D printers making guns.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#526

Post by throwAGIway »

joquarky wrote: post #473
talldatethrow wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't just write books to profit while they are alive. They write books so their families have something to pay the bills once they die as well. Books are hard enough to write and sell successfully. The few that make it are special for the families of the writers, and you want to take them. You're free to give away your work. Stop telling others what to do with their work and that you want to take it because t…

This sounds like an appeal to tradition. And an appeal to putting all your eggs in one basket and then demanding that eggs remain valuable long after you're dead and replicators are invented. Also, why does your family get to shirk their obligation to contribute to society?

What obligation? They are paying taxes. That's more than enough.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#527

Post by throwaway14356 »

WillAdams wrote: post #447
throwaway14356 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while it is also true that it is harder to get money for any print if there is anything else available at all. It makes it beneficial to not reprint anything or otherwise be available.

With the goal being that one would get things back in print so as to compensate the author.

yes, that should be the goal. They don't fully align with the publisher who seeks his own compensation.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#528

Post by greenyoda »

carla456 wrote: post #469
SequoiaHope wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anarcho communist and prolific HN commenter I sigh every time I see his name. Sadly he doesn’t actually understand communism and seems to be stuck in 1980’s anti communist propaganda. For example the sibling comment to this one where he conflates collectivism with being “anti freedom” (lol). At least he’s getting the downvotes he deserves in this thread.

[flagged]

[Note: spam link in comment.]

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#529

Post by mazambazz »

paulcole wrote: post #488
joquarky wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lending out more copies than they bought Legality aside, why is this acceptable for banks but not books? Banks can create money out of nothing to enrich themselves, but libraries can't lend out more books than they have to enrich society? Contemporary copyright law is pernicious and IMO if not drastically reformed soon, will be made moot and obsolete by genAI.

> Banks can create money out of nothing to enrich themselves, but libraries can't lend out more books than they have to enrich society? Others are enriched by the made up money the banks lend out, too. The people who buy homes, start businesses, go to college, etc. But yeah, I think otherwise you have a decent understanding of it.

[dead]

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#530

Post by nickpp »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #502
WalterBright wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel has also faded away. As did Sears, Kodak, Xerox, GE, even Walmart was eclipsed by Amazon. Disney has lost its footing. AT&T. Novell. Cisco. Kmart. RCA. Capitalism has been in the US for what, 250 years? You'd think the theory that capitalist businesses grow to take over the world would have been repeatedly verified by now.

You're not getting it are you? Do what I did with Nvidia and see how much money 80% of those companies are making. >You'd think the theory that capitalist businesses grow to take over the world would have been repeatedly verified by now. It's not about taking over the world. Ceos aren't twirling their mustaches with a bowler hat. It's about what it's been about for all of humanity: making sure to keep some other part…

> humanity

Humanity is much better off with companies making all those products and services for us than without, though.

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