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Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

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Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#521
post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are rich and own multiple houses or other expensive assets, they appreciate even faster during times of high inflation…compare that to a young working class couple hoping to someday buy their first house which continually gets farther out of reach…which ones are most hurt by inflation?

This sentiment stems from not being able to distinguish types of inflation. In the current environment, cost inflation is not a problem anymore. The reason why the FEDs might not lower the interest rate, is because of salary inflation. So right now you are at advantage working. Houses are flatlining in value due to increased interest rates and you can negotiate better pays with your employer. Also, please avoid straw…

>>In the current environment, cost inflation is not a problem anymore.

Everyone person who lives paycheck to paycheck, and is barely keeping their head above water as the cost of everything continues to skyrocket disagrees with you.

Good luck telling them that "cost inflation is not a problem anymore".

I can't speak to how things are in Denmark, but without a doubt the situation for young people (especially those looking to rent or buy a house ) HAS changed dramatically for the worse in the USA.

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#522
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentiment stems from not being able to distinguish types of inflation. In the current environment, cost inflation is not a problem anymore. The reason why the FEDs might not lower the interest rate, is because of salary inflation. So right now you are at advantage working. Houses are flatlining in value due to increased interest rates and you can negotiate better pays with your employer. Also, please avoid straw…

>>In the current environment, cost inflation is not a problem anymore. Everyone person who lives paycheck to paycheck, and is barely keeping their head above water as the cost of everything continues to skyrocket disagrees with you. Good luck telling them that "cost inflation is not a problem anymore". I can't speak to how things are in Denmark, but without a doubt the situation for young people (especially those loo…

Please don't mix up monetary and fiscal policies.

The US is not famous for their redistribution politics especially not the past 30 years.

In Denmark we have numerous policies in place, that ensures that housing stays as housing and does not become a speculative asset - this is good if you want to buy a house the popular places.

Also, remember this is macro dynamics. Yes, houses are more expensive in the bay area. But I bet that housing has comparatively gone down in value in less popular areas.

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#523
post #13

>> This loss of trust is a major problem. For example, if you no longer believe the Fed inflation target, then you will base your actions on what you think the inflation rate will be, which can lead to cycles of inflation. If you believe inflation will be high soon, you will buy a lot of stuff now when prices are lower. However, other people will realize this too, and then there will be a race to buy goods and servic…

You understand that the paragraph you quoted was a didactic illustration[1], not a description of reality, right? In fact inflation is sitting right at 3% right now, not at the 2% target but hardly very far off. > The real question is Who is in charge here? If the Fed was, they would and could get in front of inflation and raise rates They... did? [1] Specifically of the situation where a change of target rate (which…

As someone else pointed out at 3% , it's at least 50% above the target I don't see how someone can consider that small. Cherry picking historical data as a way to hand wave that fact is disengenious at best.

Even if for some reason you think 3% is not high, inflation is clearly starting to reverse which the fed has admitted its not gonna get better in the short term.

Contrast this to Volker who made the hard decision to raise rates well above inflation not once but twice.

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not good for society that ordinary people have to speculate their hard earned money just to keep it for retirement.

Lets assume the FED makes 0% inflation a policy objective. As the US and the rest of the developed world continues to age, more and more retirees are supported by fewer and fewer working people. In other words a massive portion of the population is spending money, and soaking up resources, while producing nothing . Obviously this is profoundly inflationary but to maintain 0% inflation, the productive members of socie…

Yes, that scenario is bad and it happens when the Fed is still trying to control inflation.

The people who presented as arguing for 0% inflation are actually more often arguing for a lack of inflation targeting at all, and an end to the practice of creating money. In other words they argue for 100% reserve banking and abolition of the legal right of the central bank to issue new money.

In such a system prices might go up or down, depending on whether the underlying economy is doing better or worse, and governments would simply ignore it. In the case of demographic decline that would mean prices do indeed go up and that would correctly reflect the fact that resources have become scarcer.

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#525
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The costs of running the bank include the costs of administering the loans, the cost of the bank paying interest on reserves it needs to borrow and the costs of defaults. No "money laundering" is involved. Banks are going to earn money on the margin between the rate they can lend at and the rate they need to pay to secure reserves regardless of monetary system. The alternative without Fed access is the population pay…

There is no real cost of defaults. The money that wasn't paid back was created out of thin air with no effort from the bank. Money laundering is taking ill-gotten gains and processing them to make them look legitimate. This is exactly what the central banking system, in partnership with the government, does. However much you try to justify what they are doing you can't deny that the banking system is charging interes…

I'm going to be honest, if you put half as much effort into learning the very, very basics of how the system worked as you did into campaigning against it by furiously incorrecting everyone in this thread, you'd probably feel a bit embarrassed to be posting stuff like "there's no real cost of defaults" .

The money was "created out of thin air" is the loaning bank's debt to the account the borrowed money is assigned to, not the bank's asset, so there's a very real cost to them if the borrower defaults and stops repaying them. Banks can become bankrupt, just like any other business, and no, they can't "print" their way out of it.

If you're still struggling to believe there's no real cost of defaults to banks, I invite you to look up bank insolvencies. Perhaps someone could make a wtfhappenedin2007 website.

I'm also chuckling away at you complaining that the current system means mortgages take too long to pay off a sentence after complaining that people who get into debt are rewarded! For the record, what you're actually advocating for with higher "free-market" interest rates is that poor people pay rich people more over the course of 25 years than they currently do over 35 or even 50 years to secure a house, which is less likely to appreciate in value. US home ownership rates were down at 40% before governments got involved in the mortgage market. It's impossible to pretend that anyone benefits from such a system other than people who are much, much richer than average home buyers.

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the younger people I know in less than stellar jobs are really hurting. And? It has always sucked to be poor / have less. That doesn't mean that the measurement of prices via CPI is inaccurate. The fact that capitalism has run amok and income inequality is growing doesn't mean the statisticians at the BLS are wrong or are cooking the books.

That would have been true if CPI was a purely economic issue. But it’s also a political issue and once politics is involved, there is vast incentive to fudge and massage the data to fit a narrative.

> But it’s also a political issue and once politics is involved, there is vast incentive to fudge and massage the data to fit a narrative.

[citation needed]

The CPI has been verified over and over again. There's open source software where you can do things yourself:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Billion_Prices_project

It is probably the most looked at number that the government releases. There are economics professors/researchers, statistics professors/researchers, economists at hedge fund, economists at pension fund, economists at labour unions, bond traders, equities traders, etc, looking at the numbers every month. No one professionally involved with it thinks it's fudged.

There are certainly different methodologies, and that is often debated (e.g., how best to measure Shelter for homeowners versus renters), but for the current system, I'd like to see which non-tin foil hat wearing people (i.e., not Shadowstats.com) think it is being fudged and how.

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this any different from saying they changed the methodology to make the numbers look better? Define "better": is a higher CPI better, or is a lower CPI better? Because the Boskin Commission found that the CPI numbers out of the BLS were too high and they changed the methodology to lower them after the Commission's report. Pre-Boskin CPI was being over stated.

A lower CPI is better for the government because it makes it look like inflation is a smaller problem than it is. So you're agreeing with me - they changed it to make the numbers look better.

> […] they changed it to make the numbers look better.

They changed the number because the number was not modelling reality as accurately as it could have.

Perhaps actually read the Boskin Report:

> 5. Changes in the CPI have substantially overstated the actual rate of price inflation, by about 1.3 percentage points per annum prior to 1996 (the extra 0.2 percentage point is due to a problem called formula bias inadvertently introduced in 1978 and fixed this year). It is likely that a large bias also occurred looking back over at least the last couple of decades.

> 6. The upward bias creates in the federal budget an annual automatic real increase in indexed benefits and a real tax cut. CBO estimates that if the change in the CPI overstated the change in the cost of living by an average of 1.1 percentage points per year over the next decade, this bias would contribute about $148 billion to the deficit in 2006 and $691 billion to the national debt by then. The bias alone would be the fourth largest federal program, after social security, health care and defense. By 2008, these totals reach $202 billion and $1.07 trillion, respectively.

> 7. Some have suggested that different groups in the population are likely to experience faster or slower growth in their cost of living than recorded by changes in the CPI. We find no compelling evidence of this to date (in fact just the opposite) but further exploration of this issue is desirable.

* https://www.ssa.gov/history/reports/boskinrpt.html

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boskin_Commission

Feel free to point out any errors in the methodology and logic that they used.

Here's a paper from 2006 to get you started:

> This paper provides a retrospective on the 1996 Boskin Commission Report, Toward a More Accurate Measure of the Cost of Living, and its famous estimate that the CPI in 1995-96 was upward biased by 1.1 percent per year. The paper summarizes the report's methods, findings, and recommendations, and then reviews the criticisms that appeared soon after the Report was issued. Post-Boskin changes in the CPI are summarized and assessed, as is recent research on related issues. The paper sharply distinguishes two questions. First, with what we know now, what should the Commission have concluded about CPI bias in 1995-96? Second, what is the bias now after the many improvements introduced into the CPI since the Commission's Report?

> About the first question, my own recent research on apparel and rental housing indicates a substantial downward bias in the CPI over much of the twentieth century, diminishing in size after 1985. Incorporating these findings into the Boskin matrix would reduce its 0.6 percent annual upward bias due to quality change and new products to a smaller 0.4 percent bias. However, this is more than offset by the stunning discrepancy over 2000-06 in the chain-weighted C-CPI-U compared to the traditional CPI-U, indicating that the Commission greatly understated the magnitude of upper-level substitution bias. This retrospective evaluation suggests that the Boskin bias estimate for 1995-96 should have been 1.2 to 1.3 percent, not 1.1 percent.

> Current upward bias in the CPI is estimated to have declined from the revised 1.2-1.3 percent in the Boskin era to about 0.8 percent today. Yet the Boskin report, like most contemporary studies of quality change, failed to place sufficient value on the value of new products and on increased longevity. Allowing for these, today's bias is at least 1.0 percent per year or perhaps even higher.

* https://www.nber.org/papers/w12311

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#528
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto currencies are an experiment in the "denationalization of money" which was a book written by Hayek - of course he wrote this before cyrpto currencies were even a thing. I would avoid just picking out BTC (which being stable in supply is prone to hoarding as digital gold and not really used as a means of commerce) and look at what other crypto has to offer as well, such as Ethereum which has a dynamic supply li…

Ethereum is not proof of work and so ultimately won't be as good a store of value as Bitcoin. Any digital network that doesn't use the best store of value is not going to be able to compete with one that does.

Proof of work was the first of the consensus algorithms to be used with blockchains because Satoshi (imo, probably Hal Finney) likely didn't know about Proof of Stake at the time. By the time it was being discussed, Satoshi was already becoming less active in the community.

The claim PoS is not the best store of value is asinine. PoW in BTC has consolidated around a cabal of a handful of miners and the power usage is of course a well-known sounding bell for PoW apologists everywhere.

The truth is PoW was the best they had at the dawn of blockchain, then technology improved. It's really this simple and I'm baffled when people get religious about consensus algorithms. It's as if people would say we need to keep using bubblesort instead of quicksort because bubblesort was discovered first.

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#529
post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price increases come in fits and starts. Gold is not entirely arbitrary. It is a commodity with a restricted and steady supply. As such it can be used as a measuring stick to judge how distorted prices are getting. Mind you, (price) inflation is measured by the government as a relative change in a cherry-picked basket of goods that changes over time. It's not honest and does not accurately account for changes in cred…

> As such it can be used as a measuring stick to judge how distorted prices are getting It can. It would just be a pretty bad idea to use it for that since it would indicate that prices where consistently falling during the 80s and 90s amongst other. I mean the nominal price of gold in 1980 was exactly the same as in 2007... I can barely think of a worse measuring stick (we could just use the price of oil instead? It…

You're right I guess. The price of gold is manipulated heavily by the banks so it is not a perfect measuring device. There is literally a Federal Reserve memo on Wikileaks describing how the government would create FUD about gold through the futures market. But the supply of it is nevertheless fairly constant compared to just about anything. People have remarked that an ounce of gold today buys about the same as it did thousands of years ago. I think they are right. The price of oil is clearly less stable than the price of gold. You could do better if you compared many goods in a basket, perhaps, but you just can't trust the government to do it right.

>perhaps. Seems fairly tangential, unless you're implying that governments generally tend to severely underreport inflation most of the time.

Yes that is exactly what I'm implying (or stating directly). I am mainly talking about the US government because I don't know how other governments calculate their rates, but it is probably about the same everywhere. I think in recent times you could do well by doubling their number.

The US government also misrepresents unemployment. For example, if an unemployed engineer gets a job at Starbucks one day a week while applying for a new gig, he is not counted as unemployed anymore. He is also not counted if he is unemployed for any longer than 6 months. Perhaps we need to report them all as unemployed along with the median time to get a job, and/or have a separate number for skilled workers that does not exclude them if they are forced to take an inadequate job.

Re: Why the 2% inflation target? (2023)

#530
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that the paragraph you quoted was a didactic illustration[1], not a description of reality, right? In fact inflation is sitting right at 3% right now, not at the 2% target but hardly very far off. > The real question is Who is in charge here? If the Fed was, they would and could get in front of inflation and raise rates They... did? [1] Specifically of the situation where a change of target rate (which…

As someone else pointed out at 3% , it's at least 50% above the target I don't see how someone can consider that small. Cherry picking historical data as a way to hand wave that fact is disengenious at best. Even if for some reason you think 3% is not high, inflation is clearly starting to reverse which the fed has admitted its not gonna get better in the short term. Contrast this to Volker who made the hard decision…

What number do you consider "not small", and do to promise to reconsider your priors when it's reached?

The doom slinging on this issue really is getting ridiculous. People picked their rhetoric based on an assumption of 8-9% a year ago (for baldly partisan reasons) and are refusing to reconsider when it turned out the doom didn't arrive.

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