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Why is it so hard to build an airport?

construction-physics.com

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Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#521

Post by klausa »

dboreham wrote: post #496
masklinn wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely is not for narita, NEX brings you to Tokyo in an hour.

For anyone doing travel planning based on reading here: often your best option is actually a bus (coach). This is because although they're slow, they go straight to many major hotels in the city. This removes the need to negotiate the subway with luggage or deal with Tokyo's idiosyncratic taxis while jetlagged.

For anyone looking for actual pro-move here: pack what you need for the next day or two in the carry-on, and ship your heavy luggage to the hotel, and then take the fastest train you can afford to get where you’re going.

Some of the Japans biggest shipping companies (I’ve personally only used Kuroneko Yamato; but I’m pretty sure others do this too) will pick up your luggage from the airport, and deliver it to your room for ~15 USD per bag.

This also works in reverse, and even between cities — don’t take your heavy bags on Shinkansen, have a concierge or front desk ship them to your next hotel.

The Google keyword for this are ta-q-bin/takkyubin.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#522

Post by klausa »

lobochrome wrote: post #78
perlgeek wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the interesting ideas [...] is to run high-speed rail to Moses Lake Airport in Central Washington and just expand there. While reading this article, I thought about something like that too. Build an airport quite a while away from the big city, and provide a high-speed, maybe even maglev train there. Make it free for customers. Also, make it very inconvenient for passengers and staff to approach the airport…

I live in Tokyo where we have both Narita, far out but well-ish connected by train with NEX and Haneda, with direct access to the city. Haneda is vastly more convenient.

This very much depends on where in Tokyo you live, no?

Even though NRT is in the middle of nowhere, getting there from my place in Asakusa still is faster then getting across the city to get to HND.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#523

Post by shados »

subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

Consider how the FAA handled the Nextgen project and continually gaslight anyone negatively impacted over the last 10 years, I would be against any airport built within 10 miles of where I live too. Not surprising people would be against it. It doesn't have to be so bad, but it is.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#524

Post by danielodievich »

resonantjacket5 wrote: post #488
subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

> There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. The commission was hampered by rules that stated they couldn't look into increasing the exi…

I regularly fly to SFO from Paine field, it is 20 more minutes drive for me from Mercer Island but the experience of the airport is worth it. The lobby that is like a nice W, no security lines whatsoever, and seeing all the green pickle birds being assembled is really nice. I'd fly other places if they were offered. The place can handle a lot more traffic but yeah, the freight isn't going to go there...

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#525

Post by shados »

dividefuel wrote: post #85
rockostrich wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is our definition of cities versus metro areas. Boston's population is technically only 650k but Boston proper doesn't even include Cambridge which is like not including one of the boroughs when talking about NYC's population. Granted, we still have a lot less metro areas with over 1 million people but there are still ~50 of them.

Is this something fairly unique to the US or do other countries do this too? that is, having a city boundary that's relatively small compared to the metro area.

Canada has/had that too. Eg: Montreal used to be a pretty small part of the Montreal metro until they merged all the cities on the island. Even then it doesn't include it's north and south chores.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#526

Post by refulgentis »

pests wrote: post #443
fsckboy wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that article says that what he refers to as his ancestral lands have been farmed by his family for only a 100 years. hard for me to get worked up about such a short time

Gotta start somewhere, and I'm sure it means way more to him that it does to you. 100 years is a lifetime, do you never get worked up at all? Why bother, such a short lifespan we all live.

This is a whole other level than "worked up" - speaking of lifetimes - 12 people have died over it. Did you read it?

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#527

Post by refulgentis »

wolverine876 wrote: post #442
fsckboy wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that article says that what he refers to as his ancestral lands have been farmed by his family for only a 100 years. hard for me to get worked up about such a short time

It doesn't matter if you or I get worked up about their land, it matters if they get worked up about their land and their heritage.

They haven't owned the land since before WWII, and they yadda yadda over why they weren't allowed to buy, reasons are related to military and took place during WWII.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#528

Post by thaumasiotes »

TylerE wrote: post #227
thaumasiotes wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the benefit of having security outside the airport? There are tons of airports that connect to cities by rail transit. Within the recent past, I've been in three of them, PVG, HKG, and KHH. In no case do they put security outside the airport. For one thing, subway lines have multiple stops. In order to make sure that everyone who's going to the airport has to go through security, you'd want security to occur a…

The point of doing it this way is that the secure perimeter would extended all the way to the central station. That's the whole idea. Essentially, this urban hub is "the airport" in terms of traveling to it. Think of the actual hub -> board gates/runway connections as like a really long people mover, not just extending a subway line and drawing a new dot. Trains could travel on a totally grade separated route with st…

> The point of doing it this way is that the secure perimeter would extended all the way to the central station. That's the whole idea.

You forgot to describe any benefit of this idea.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#529

Post by 20kleagues »

_delirium wrote: post #339
bombcar wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a key if you want a "rail to plane" setup - if you do it right (read-nobody will do it) you check in for the train with your baggage and your flight at the same time, and give the bags over to a dedicated baggage car that handles everything for you.

Hong Kong recently added this, called In-town Check-in [1]. You can check in and drop your bags at the MTR Hong Kong station when taking the Airport Express. Can even drop off the bags up to a day in advance. Currently only open to Cathay Pacific customers though. [1] https://www.mtr.com.hk/en/customer/services/complom_checkin....

This is not a recent addition. It is more than 10 years old but was shut down during Covid. They are slowly starting to bring it back. It also wasn’t restricted to just Cathay before, but a large number of major airlines had counters at HK Station for check-in services. It’s wonderful - you can check in your bags before heading to work in the morning and in the evening take the train to the airport directly.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#530

Post by lobochrome »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #283
lobochrome wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Tokyo where we have both Narita, far out but well-ish connected by train with NEX and Haneda, with direct access to the city. Haneda is vastly more convenient.

> Haneda is vastly more convenient. Many (millions) would disagree. After the opening of the Keisei Skyliner[1], a very fast train from north Tokyo to Narita, from Shinjuku station (west side, busiest train station in the world), it is the same time to either Haneda ("Tokyo Int'l") or Narita. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyliner

I prefer to take a taxi. Also 99% can’t choose. Either you‘re on premium market destinations and carriers (JAL/ANA/LH) or you have no choice to go to NRT.
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