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Is my plane a 737 MAX?
521–530 of 579 posts
Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#522I'll preface this by saying I'm for sure not denying there's problems to be fixed with this plane. There for sure are. But man, people in threads like these seem so out of touch with reality. You know that you have an incomplete picture of reality right? You're on US-based websites and consume US-based media, both of which amplify every bad thing related to Boeing, but don't amplify the same types of issues for other…
> You likely risk your life more every time you get in a car than getting in one of these planes. This statistic always comes up, but there is a big picture missing in it. In a plane, you are a completely powerless passenger. There is absolutely nothing you can do to improve your odds, everything is in the hands of multiple third parties. If you go drive your own car, there is a huge amount of influence you can do to…
And absolutely none of that influence matters when someone else who isn't as careful kills you. Trust me, as a cyclist, you learn very quickly how one impatient or careless driver can end your life with one bad decision.
Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#523Earlier quoted context omitted.
But, we're seeing fatal issues with one specific company over and over again. Knowing that there is some systemic failure within Boeing must change your priors, no? What's wrong with pointing that out and being concerned?
> But, we're seeing fatal issues with one specific company over and over again. We aren't . There were fatal issues with one system (MCAS) on one line of planes. This was addressed, and since then there have been zero fatalities (or injuries) caused by design and/or engineering issues by this manufacturer. Their safety record is not substantially different from that of Airbus (who have their own design issues, IMO, s…
> The MCAS issue was, to be clear, completely inexcusable and both regulator and management heads should have rolled over this. I am not happy with our anemic response to this incident.
To be fair Boeing literally fired their CEO because of the MAX fiasco.
“He was CEO from 2015 to 2019, when he was fired in the aftermath of two crashes of the 737 MAX and its subsequent groundings.”
Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#524Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you call giving government officials lots of money to take anticompetitive actions that personally benefit you that they would otherwise never do and also have a clear conflict of interest with the purpose of their elected position?
I call it representative democracy.
representing only those with the most money at the expense of literally everyone else
Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#525Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if you think all miles of flight are the same OP said air safety is going down broadly [1]. So yes, considering all air transport miles is valid given the context . [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38929237
more accidents is less safe, anyway you cut it. I really can't understand how you can view flying as not being less safe in this moment. If you want to do integration over huge time spans to make your point, lets start at zero and go to infinity... human lifespan is 0 years long average over history, seeing as we didn't exist for some period of time. So any changes to human life in shorter time spans is completely me…
> more accidents is less safe, anyway you cut it. I really can't understand how you can view flying as not being less safe in this moment
You’re proposing crashes are autocorrelated. They’re not. They would be in a vacuum filled with spherical cows. But grounding and investigating takes care of that.
This is related to the fallacy of thinking if a coin has come up heads thrice in a row, it’s more likely to come up tails the fourth time. It’s not. We have a lot of innocuous flight miles as data from which to make robust statements, particularly when it comes to characterising the safety of the entire airline industry.
Put another way, on which day are you safer, the day before the accident or the day after?
Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#526I find it puzzling that airlines are still ordering this plane. It's not just us, the customers, who should "vote with their feet", but the airlines, too. I would not buy from a vendor that is not able to have a QA process that makes sure all screws and bolts are in place, fastened and secured. Even if it would not be an airplane where this is critical for safety, even if it would just be a toaster, I would stop buyi…
What choice do they have? If they switch to Airbus they’re going to be waiting until at least 2030. They could buy used but that’s goes against why airlines are ordering new planes to begin with. And that’s not factoring in the maintenance cost in switching manufacturers. Thats why you’ll see airlines be a Boeing or Airbus only fleet.
I have seen this 2030 number posted a couple of times now. Is this validated information? Is it really such a long wait to get an airplane from Airbus?
Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But, we're seeing fatal issues with one specific company over and over again. We aren't . There were fatal issues with one system (MCAS) on one line of planes. This was addressed, and since then there have been zero fatalities (or injuries) caused by design and/or engineering issues by this manufacturer. Their safety record is not substantially different from that of Airbus (who have their own design issues, IMO, s…
Why should you expect every moment to be a learning moment? Is that true in any circumstance you've ever seen? Is it ok to learn with the blood of others?
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Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#528I find it puzzling that airlines are still ordering this plane. It's not just us, the customers, who should "vote with their feet", but the airlines, too. I would not buy from a vendor that is not able to have a QA process that makes sure all screws and bolts are in place, fastened and secured. Even if it would not be an airplane where this is critical for safety, even if it would just be a toaster, I would stop buyi…
> And finally: It goes beyond my comprehension that someone would decide to build a version of the voice recorder specifically for the US that only stores 2 hours of voice, while the international version of the same plane stores 25. What kind of cost reduction per unit is that, $1 per airplane? Having two different models to "certify", produce and warehouse just to save a dollar or something per unit does not sound…
Wow, that's crazy.
I understand the privacy reasons, but this concern should be addressed by access control to the recordings. Just make sure that only for example the NTSB is authorized to download the full recording. If you as a pilot have just barely survived a near fatal event, you probably won't mind an NTSB investigator listening to the dick jokes you have done as a pilot inflight. And if it was a fatal crash the dead pilot won't mind at all.
Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#529I find it puzzling that airlines are still ordering this plane. It's not just us, the customers, who should "vote with their feet", but the airlines, too. I would not buy from a vendor that is not able to have a QA process that makes sure all screws and bolts are in place, fastened and secured. Even if it would not be an airplane where this is critical for safety, even if it would just be a toaster, I would stop buyi…
What choice do they have? If they switch to Airbus they’re going to be waiting until at least 2030. They could buy used but that’s goes against why airlines are ordering new planes to begin with. And that’s not factoring in the maintenance cost in switching manufacturers. Thats why you’ll see airlines be a Boeing or Airbus only fleet.
They could buy the excellent Bombardier C-Series instead. Oh, wait it had to be sold to Airbus after Boeing killed it by lobbying for 300% US import tariffs on it (it's now become the Airbus A220).
_Fuck_ the new Boeing.
Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?
#530I find it puzzling that airlines are still ordering this plane. It's not just us, the customers, who should "vote with their feet", but the airlines, too. I would not buy from a vendor that is not able to have a QA process that makes sure all screws and bolts are in place, fastened and secured. Even if it would not be an airplane where this is critical for safety, even if it would just be a toaster, I would stop buyi…
It’s like people buying Teslas. Sure, it’s a company run by a mercurial edgelord billionaire who doesn’t believe in quality assurance or decent post-sale service, but hey, it’s a well-priced (depending on your jurisdiction maybe) car built by a company focused on electric cars and chargers. Not like you have a ton of options.
I don't think it's a comparable situation.
A lot of Tesla drivers, especially the early ones, are part of some kind of cult. Think about all the people who paid thousands of USD/Euro to buy a license to "Autopilot is coming in two weeks", to still haven't gotten any return on investment at all (over here in Europe it is not available at all).
And I am saying this having bought my Tesla three years ago.
Also, while their build quality is pretty terrible compared to oldschool car manufacturers, with the exception of Autopilot most of their build quality problems are not safety related. Think of the excellent Euro NCAP Safety test results, for example. It's more like that you know that if you buy a Tesla you can not expect the wipers to be any good at cleaning the window, or the doors not being aligned properly.
My impression is that Tesla has a very good QA, but with a policy of "we'll ignore all cosmetics".
Boeing on the other hand does appear to have completely broken QA processes in the safety sector. Their priorities might be the opposite of Tesla's. Kind of "It's OK if it explodes as long as it looks nice while doing so".
:)