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Things are about to get worse for generative AI

garymarcus.substack.com

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Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#521

Post by asylteltine »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #326
asylteltine wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how are you supposed to make money from something you invent? Let’s say you make a hit video game. Without copyright people can pirate your game, steal the art, make unauthorized derivative works, etc. it’s just theft.

My personal observation is people who are against copyright in absolute terms have never or rarely needed their protection. (Or never considered the implications.) I’m not making a dig at people here. This is just human nature. It’s difficult to see the value in something that you only see as an obstacle. Open source software is rather unusual. It’s a commune on a massive scale and it gets its value from the generosi…

This is true and I see it with cops and free speech as well. Everyone loves to hate cops… until they need them. Everyone wants to defund the police… until they are a victim of crime. Everyone wants to enforce certain speech patterns… until it affects them

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#522

Post by sampo »

niemandhier wrote: post #265

Should not be a problem in the EU. Article 3 and 4 of the „ Copyright in the Digital Single Market“ Directive already regulate this. Summary by Wolters Kluwer: […] Everyone else (including commercial ML developers) can only use works that are lawfully accessible and where the rightholders have not explicitly reserved use for text and data mining purposes. AFAIK they are discussing something like a robot.txt to flag s…

> Summary by Wolters Kluwer: […] Everyone else (including commercial ML developers) can only use

That is a weird (wishful?) interpretation. Doesn't article 4 give the exception to everybody for the purposes of text and data mining, including commercial ML developers?

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2019/790/oj

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#523

Post by airstrike »

startupsfail wrote: post #505
airstrike wrote: post #503

I have no patriotic skin in the game, being neither American, nor European, nor Chinese, but this copyright issue seems overblown to me and like the perfect way to hand the leadership in generative AI over to China

Would you prefer to live under Chino-Russia dominating the technology sector or EU-US?

EU-US, but were I consulted by the Chino-Russia camp, I'd say encouraging this debate is in our best interest and we should do our best to promote the issue as a real "danger"

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#524

Post by aatd86 »

Havoc wrote: post #55

To me that’s the wrong question. Everyone knew it was trained on copyrighted material and capable of eerily similar outputs. But it’s already done. At scale. Large corps committing fully. There is no chance of that toothpaste going back in the tube. It’s a bit like when big tech built on aggressive user data harvesting. Whether it’s right, ethical or even legal is academic at this stage. They just did it - effectivel…

Data is dynamic. Ok for old data. What about new data?

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#525

Post by msp26 »

jcgrillo wrote: post #442
EMM_386 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “funny magic parrot box” can write some mid-tier high school essays That's your take on LLMs? Ask it how it is possible for a photon to travel across the universe, arriving at the same time it departed, resulting in the journey taking zero time (in its reference frame). Ask what implications are if certain viral amino sequences result in messenger RNA translocating to the host cell nucleus, potentially with the ent…

The "crypto-bro" behavior I see is a whole bunch of people burning a ton of calories wildly casting about for industrial applications of what amounts to nothing more than a neat (albeit eye-wateringly expensive) toy. These LLMs seem like a solution in search of a problem in just the same way that blockchains are. Please prove me wrong, I'd really love to be wrong about this!

Language models have completely overhauled the NLP space. If you have a problem involving natural language data, you can prototype working pipeline in an afternoon. Often this prototype is very close in performance to a 'proper' solution.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#526

Post by goertzen »

No they are not.

This is a negotiation tactic by the NYT to drive up the licensing price. Period.

The Napster/Music Industry analogy has no resemblance to this situation.

The only meaningful question that might be answered as a result of this is, what permission and access rights do crawlers have to content that is publicly and legally available.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#527

Post by bbor »

numpad0 wrote: post #257
gchamonlive wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that those are really trivial or extreme examples. What we should take from this: 1. Generative AI systems are fully capable of producing materials that infringe on copyright. 2. They do not inform users when they do so. So potentially any output could be infringing copyright source material, even from some obscure but still protected corner of the web, and anyone using that output could be exposed to la…

AIUI/IIUC/IANAL, Generative AI systems stack up tuned butterfly effects to create meaningful outputs. Which means, data is not merely stored inside a butterfly but spread across the system, and potentially every output from the butterfly cage is infringing everything, just almost negligibly. But no one can prove that or otherwise to be the case with current technology. I think it's just unfixable as far as fixing goe…

The third option would be to change our copyright laws to reflect the new technology, rather than neutering the technology or restricting use of its outputs. Even if that’s the wrong way, it’s important to remember that we’re not inescapably trapped in the status quo

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#528

Post by Auracle »

kranke155 wrote: post #222
amazingman wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your scenario already exists, but for currency. Photoshop will refuse to work if it thinks you might be counterfeiting currency.

that's literally the only scenario where it exists.

You can’t use their generative AI tools on images it deems NSFW, even if the part you’re generating isn’t.

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#529

Post by chubot »

Havoc wrote: post #55

To me that’s the wrong question. Everyone knew it was trained on copyrighted material and capable of eerily similar outputs. But it’s already done. At scale. Large corps committing fully. There is no chance of that toothpaste going back in the tube. It’s a bit like when big tech built on aggressive user data harvesting. Whether it’s right, ethical or even legal is academic at this stage. They just did it - effectivel…

This comment is ignorant of history

It happened with Napster, then Apple Music, now streaming services

There is no widespread file sharing in the general public, instead we have devices that we don’t own, and streaming subscriptions

Apple didn’t just copy all the music onto iPods and sell it — it took them a decade of deal making and lots of money to acquire the rights to the content

I’m not saying what’s right or wrong, just saying that this comment has very little understanding of these battles

Re: Things are about to get worse for generative AI

#530

Post by SKILNER »

I don't understand the glee so many people have over this. I love being able to use Generative AI tools. How is it different than if I asked a person to draw these pictures for me? I know someone will gleefully clobber this question with a legal answer, but God, let's move forward, hunh?
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