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Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

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Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#521

Post by v-erne »

broast wrote: post #101
nox100 wrote: post #18

Some do, not all do. I do much better in a room with ~6 people that are working on the same project. Much better than working at home. Much better than a private office (which I've had). Having people around me working on the same project is invaluable for me for * asking quick questions and getting an instant answer. vs chat where I may not get an answer for hours. * running ideas by others. This doesn't happen on c…

I always find it surprising that so many people struggle to make effective human connections over chat. I think it must be generational, as I believe these are the connections I and other young people prefer.

And I struggle to understand how can you make any real connections without seeing and hearing other person. There is so much communication hidden in body language and voice that for me any kind of text communication is just poor substitute. And I am not even extrovert that loves interaction with others (rather the opposite) and still know this intuitively to be true.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#522

Post by anthonypasq »

ayuhito wrote: post #322
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #236

I worked for a Japanese corporation. The Tokyo offices had enormous rooms, with long rows of desks, arranged by section/department. The section manager's desk was at the end of each row. VPs, with billion-dollar budgets, had small, schoolteacher-style desks, in the corner of the room. These enormous rooms, with hundreds of engineers, were quiet as a library. They had carpeting, people wore "office slippers," and ther…

I worked for a Japanese corporation where each floor had different rules. One floor had an open-plan layout where people were open to chitchat, another open-plan floor that expected everyone to be quiet, and there was a floor with reservable cubicles or sound-proofed rooms. In general though, I do agree that the culture is on the quieter side. I really enjoyed working there because the level of isolation was entirely…

this is how most university libraries are set up

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#523

Post by 2devnull »

JohnFen wrote: post #362
2devnull wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we work in different ways now than we did in 1975? The work people do is also different. And, the people themselves have also changed. A person born in 1980s may be more used to 24/7 noise from tv and devices. A 30 year old worker in 1975 grew up in a quieter home.

I don't think people and how they work are much different now than in 1975. I have no data, though. That would be an interesting study. Do you have data?

I do. The data would be computer sales to businesses. The data indicates computer use is now a regular part of many jobs, whereas very few jobs in 1970 involved working on a computer, based on computer sales data.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#524

Post by 2devnull »

13rac1 wrote: post #505
2devnull wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we work in different ways now than we did in 1975? The work people do is also different. And, the people themselves have also changed. A person born in 1980s may be more used to 24/7 noise from tv and devices. A 30 year old worker in 1975 grew up in a quieter home.

You may not recognize the difference, but our brains haven't evolved (nature) much in the last couple decades or probably centuries. There's little to no chance we have truly adapted (nurture) to this 24/7 noise, even plants have problems with it: https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/plants-are-... -> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S143917912... > Plants in the traffic noise treatment g…

Human change does not require Darwinian selection. Look across cultures. That people might tolerate or be most comfortable in noisier environments could vary for non-heritable reasons. Some people like less stimulation, some more. Autism rates have changed faster than our genetics also.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#525

Post by ferbivore »

kridsdale1 wrote: post #433
e12e wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a year as an exchange student in secondary school/senior high school in Japan. We were close to 50 pupils per class room - yet it was much more quiet than my Norwegian classroom with half as many pupils. Not a praise of the outdated Prussian high school system in Japan - but another illustration that the culture is different.

Is it outdated? How do the results compare?

Which results? Evaluating school systems is an unsolved problem.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#526

Post by da39a3ee »

The fact is that there are different sorts of people. Some people know what it's like to do deep, sometimes difficult, independent work on their own. These people have all been ICs in some field. There are also people who have been ICs who have never known such a feeling. And then there are people who have only ever been managers, who also have never known such a feeling.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#527

Post by dvngnt_ »

yousif_123123 wrote: post #407

Just want to add that I only became (at least in my opinion) a good programmer by sitting next to a very good and passionate one that I was able to question from time to time and may have interrupted his work some days. I also probably helped him brainstorm ideas with me and debugging, since he would just say what's on his mind while doing it, and I'd do the same, and sometimes this kind of ping pong debugging/brains…

The most in sync i've ever been with a team was playing end-game raids in MMO's using ventrilo. huddles, meet, and zoom just aint the same. I've never tried discord though.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#528

Post by elzbardico »

cauch wrote: post #404
tzs wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you are talking about the same thing when you say "flow" that I think most of the other people are talking about when they say "flow". Flow as most are using it here, also known as being "in the zone", is when you achieve a deep state of focus on one particular task, and everything else seems to melt away. You reach maximal energy and enthusiasm for the work. It is where you reach peak productivity and c…

Hm, I think I have the same definition of flow. For example, you can be "in the zone", and then suddenly realise you need answer X than only John can provide. In the office, you can look at John and he does not look busy, so you quickly ask. Sometimes, people don't even realise they are asking, they are still in the zone, checking if John is available is done by another part of the brain. After the answer, you contin…

This is the manager's or marketeers version of flow. It is not the kind of flow we're discussing here.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#529

Post by The_Colonel »

JohnFen wrote: post #366
The_Colonel wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open plan is good for collaboration/communication heavy types of jobs. In this kind of jobs, disruptions is a way to propagate "just in time" information through the organization. You can still eliminate disruptions in such setting, and it superficially leads to a high "productivity" in terms of LOC produced, but you act on outdated/misleading information (or you deny that information to others), which often leads to…

> People often argue this can be fixed by just not needing to communicate. They do? I don't think I've ever heard someone make this argument.

Apologies, I left out the word "synchronously" in front of "communicate". Synchronous communication is either planned meetings or unplanned disruptions, which many people strongly dislike. A complete lack of communication is of course impossible, so these people strongly prefer asynchronous communication - very detailed spec in advance, emails with the implicit expectation they might get answered with a day-long delay etc.
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