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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#521

Post by A1kmm »

jdross wrote: post #7

Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas.

I think it is currently about an order of magnitude more civilians deaths have resulted from the actions of Likud (Netanyahu etc..., who control the government and hence the IDF) than from the actions of Hamas. IDF is apparently disrupting civilian aid, destroying infrastructure including hospitals, and causing mass population movements into areas that cannot support them, so the risk of death from starvation and infectious disease at a massive scale as an indirect result is high. The Likud-controlled IDF are also apparently enforcing a 'lock down' of Palestinian civilians in the West Bank while allowing Israeli citizens to seize land by force and further expand the occupied territories.

So the scale of the atrocities seems to be much higher on the Likud side than the Hamas side, covers both the West Bank and Gaza, and it makes sense that the Palestinian victims of those atrocities would receive more support. That doesn't mean that all the people who care about the plight of the Palestinian population are anti-Israel (they are just not posting about it because they are likely prioritising issues).

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#523

Post by elihu »

odiroot wrote: post #116

That's a really... weird article to read. It's like reading a fantasy book about another universe. Or a desperate attempt at "inception". Reddit, at least, seems to be (rightfully or not) dominated by a strongly anti-Israel narrative. Even the "great" BBC is not willing to call a spade a spade.

I think it depends on what subreddit you're on. /r/worldnews tends to be very pro-Israel, unless the comment are on a story about settler violence. /r/politics is more balanced.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#524

Post by oytis »

the_gastropod wrote: post #223
matrix87 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic deflects legitimate criticism Who is saying this? All I've heard are people on one side insisting that people are saying this, sounds like a straw man

This isn't exactly the same, but it's pretty close. Here's Nikki Haley tweeting: "Anti-Zionism is antisemitism. No federal funds for schools that don't combat antisemitism." [1] [1] https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1720501916088590704

Anti-Zionism is asserting that the Jewish state should not exist in the land of Israel. It _is_ antisemitism. You can criticize current Israeli government and it's certain actions, while acknowledging Israel's right to exist and defend its existence.

There are plenty of people in Israel who are opposed to Netanyahu and were protesting against him before the war started, but don't doubt that destroying Hamas is justified.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#526

Post by [deleted] »

squarefoot wrote: post #166
pesfandiar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. It's a common misunderstanding, perhaps because there has always been a powerful campaign to equate any criticism of Israel to antisemitism.

> perhaps because there has always been a powerful campaign to equate any criticism of Israel to antisemitism. That is the #1 tactic used to build smearing campaigns against people critic of Israel. The difference between being a racist and expressing disgust for what Israel has done in decades to the people of Gaza and the West Bank is so huge that either people using the word "antisemite" in that context are deeply…

[deleted]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#527

Post by squidbeak »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #510
abusada wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello there, a Palestinian from the west bank here speaking, let me tell you something, our resistance has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, if my brother stole my house and killed my children i will fight him just the same, and you would too and everyone else (I assume). jewish, muslim, christian, vegan.. doesn't matter. Now Hamas does play on the string of religion to get to people, and so does Israel…

Is it really worth fighting over a piece of land for generations? It's just dirt, there's nothing special about it. Almost all borders are the results of war and conquest throughout history, it's better to accept that and move on.

It's their home and they have nowhere else to go. Wouldn't you want to preserve your community, culture and homeland?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#528

Post by cymian »

abusada wrote: post #361
EvgeniyZh wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).…

Hello there, a Palestinian from the west bank here speaking, let me tell you something, our resistance has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, if my brother stole my house and killed my children i will fight him just the same, and you would too and everyone else (I assume). jewish, muslim, christian, vegan.. doesn't matter. Now Hamas does play on the string of religion to get to people, and so does Israel…

And how many Jews live in any of the neighboring Muslim ruled countries? As you say "if my brother ... killed my children I will fight him just the same". The very reason for the wall between Israel and Gaza is because people from Gaza have repeatedly sent terrorists to kill people in Israel. Before Oct 7th (and continuing up to this day) they continually launch rockets that would have killed tens of thousands of Israelis were it not for the Iron Dome.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#529

Post by fxd123 »

ChumpGPT wrote: post #508

Can you imagine that all it took for her to lose her job was "“Freedom for Palestine”. That's the insanity about this whole thing. The Zionists don't believe Palestine nor the Palestinians deserve a homeland while many Jews believe they do. Zionism is an incredibly powerful entity that even brought Musk to his knees. That's the real story here..... Just saying....

> Can you imagine that all it took for her to lose her job was "“Freedom for Palestine”.

Which she said after Israel was a victim of a terrorist attack. Quite tone deaf, no?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#530

Post by bjourne »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #435
wolverine876 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good. > saying Isra…

My (current, possibly misinformed) understanding is that "from the river to the sea" refers to a Palestinian state that stretches from the west bank to Gaza. Under the current reality, I don't see how this would be accomplished without a mass genocide of (Jewish) Israelis. I'm open to the suggestion that (some?) people chanting this hope for this to be accomplished without violence, but speakers at such events have a…

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