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80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

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Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#521

Post by evantbyrne »

closeparen wrote: post #496
evantbyrne wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get what they pay for. Companies that offer remote jobs will be able to pick from and retain a wider gamut of talent. I suspect a lot of this RTO is related to the tech market just generally being down. Once things heat back up, recruiters will be knocking down doors to get people to interview for remote gigs just like before. It may take some time to get to that point though, because there are a number of facto…

My contention is they won’t be able to sustain it, because either the wages will be uncompetitive or remote workers will pay off their houses and no longer need to work (as much).

Wages aren't even close to being high enough that companies won't able to afford workers. Developers in the standard ranges don't even need to consider what a company can afford when doing salary negotiations. With the exception of small businesses, it's about what they are _willing_ to pay, not what they are able to.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#522

Post by ekianjo »

7952 wrote: post #466
ekianjo wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social animal bullshit is a myth. You can see it around you everyday. People in public places everywhere spending time on their phones rather than talking to people around them

Phones and social networks are so heavily used because they are addictive.

Hence that defeats the social animal myth if our minds can be captured by something inherently non human

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#523

Post by JSavageOne »

closeparen wrote: post #153

I have a new conspiracy theory on RTO in Big Tech. Much has been said about commercial real estate. But I think getting highly capable people to work hard for you is a difficult problem & something tech executives put a lot of thought into. If you don't pay people enough, someone else will. But if you pay them too much, they'll become financially independent. Mid six figures is an objectively life-changing amount of…

Very well said. Forcing employees to live in high cost of living locations and commute to an office reduces employee leverage. High housing prices keep you on the treadmill and dependant on your employer. Employers want you to be dependent on them

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#524

Post by Sai_ »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #502
Sai_ wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the fact that work/job _is_ life changing for someone who needs it to put food on the table. Just because no one is inventing anti-cancer medication every other week doesn't mean that person's internal world is not improved by having a job.

> food on the table That point has nothing to do with WFH. If you get paid you can afford food, regardless of where you work. In fact WFH is better because you can save up to 2 hours a day not commuting and instead can spend it on cooking, grocery shopping, food prep, gardening, or any other food on the table related task.

The comment I was replying to was premised on most of our work being essentially meaningless in the grander scheme of things. That’s false. You can’t eat if you don’t have UBI or a job.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#525

Post by vunderba »

Alupis wrote: post #146
atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

There's a lot of nuance that isn't discussed in the WFH circles. I don't believe the cynical claims some offer of VC's losing out on real estate deals, or mid-level managers needing to boost their butts-in-seats numbers or whatever. For some, perhaps, but on average? What percentage of long-distance relationships work out long-term? Do you become more or less close with friends after they move out of town? Do you sti…

"Human beings are social creatures - yes, even we introverts need interaction. A pure voice-only relationship can feel close, but it's not the same thing. Current technology like Zoom and similar is just not a good replacement for in-person interactions."

I cant stand it when people put out these blanket statements in the form of objective facts. If I'm in a group team huddle with our cameras on - I'm able to pick up on body language, I can see their faces and we can all exchange ideas at the same time. As far as somebody talking over somebody else you can split into multiple groups if it's too big, you would have the same issue in proximity.

You seem to be under the impression that social interactions can only happen if we're all breathing the same air. The only thing that being on site would add is potential tactility. Do you find yourself hugging and touching your coworkers a lot?

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#527

Post by commonlisp94 »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #515
commonlisp94 wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm lucky that I've had a long career and my skills are very much in demand, so I will always be able to find a remote job somewhere. Yep, this is exactly who WFH benefits, and nobody else.

Uh? WFH benefits a whole lot of people: - The people who need to stay home to take care of their children and family members. - The companies who can't find [good] enough local talent, or can't afford them. - The people who can't find jobs locally and cannot move, due to financial, familial, environmental, or other reasons. - People with diverse needs who require a flexible schedule and safe space. - People who live…

You're right, I left out a lot of life situations that could benefit. Let me be a little more specific:

- if you're young you probably want to be around others to learn from.

- if you're not well established, you want others to know you and see your impact.

- if you're struggling financially or to find a job, you probably don't want to compete with the whole world for basic employment (especially against low cost of living countries.)

So yes, if you just need a paycheck for skills you already have, and that can be done remotely, that can be convenient. If you are looking for more you need to consider these kinds of tradeoffs.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#528

Post by civilized »

lamontcg wrote: post #94
troupe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. The decades of evidence that open office plans are utter shit for productivity already proved that the emperor wears no clothes and they have no idea what makes for better produc…

It's so frequent and so bizarre that people are getting paid by an employer, and they spend their work hours constantly thinking "I wish this employer would allow me to do the job they pay me to do".

It feels like I'm thinking the Earth is the center of the universe, then watching Mars go retrograde. Something's profoundly wrong with my understanding of the world. I see two options:

1. Graeber's Bullshit Jobs. Which says that a lot of jobs are in large part about making the boss feel important, not about the assigned work.

2. Communication between leaders and workers is so bad that leaders have no idea what workers really experience in their working conditions.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#529

Post by skirmish »

xedrac wrote: post #286
johnnyanmac wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What percentage of long-distance relationships work out long-term? Do you become more or less close with friends after they move out of town? Do you still "know" them the same as you did when you regularly met in person for lunch or drinks? Is it awkward when you do see each other in person that one visit a year? that's the crux of a lot of people here. You are comparing coworkers to friend and some people don't car…

It's more like a 52 hour work week for me. I think it depends on your personality. I have a hard time stopping my work, but I still think the benefits outweigh that.

I had this problem and solved it by tracking time spent in a spreadsheet. I have time targets for work and personal projects per week. If they are above, next week I switch some time e.g. from work to personal projects. I found this greatly reduces risk of burnout for me.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#530

Post by bagacrap »

hudon wrote: post #229
bagacrap wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that everything is a tax to you. What would you like to spend your money on besides lifestyle?

they're not saying lifestyle expenses are a tax in themselves, but rather the inflation on the lifestyle expense is a tax (ie. "cost of living"), as well as the need for certain expenses to begin with (eg. the need for a nanny because both parents need to work long hours bc of high COL and commute times)

I still think "expense" is more appropriate than "tax".

The difference is that you get to blame someone else for a tax, but expenses are something you bring on yourself. Victim mentality.

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