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French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
521–530 of 553 posts
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#522Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it happens once it's accident, if it happens constantly, its their responsibility if not starting a protest at all would prevent the violence And if they put their label on it it's their responsibility.
Then the state can prevent demonstrations and protests, by paying some of their own men to join as protestors and start throwing stones.
> Then the state can prevent demonstrations and protests, by paying some of their own men to join as protestors and start throwing stones.
Oh, come on, as if that were a thing so common that there had been a specific word for it for nearly 200 years.
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#523I support some protests in France, this is what fueled the state we have today with is social safety nets.
I do not support the protests that destroy public and private property.
Someone who supports such violence should have their house destroyed and looted and then affirm "well done!". Somehow this does not happen.
Neither the leaders who support squatting do not advertise their house address and when they go for vacation to incite the squatters to take their house and make it a trashbin.
There are different ways to protest but when you go for violence do not be surprised you get violence back (including non physical).
This is not talked to any political wing - as someone said the extremes usually meet.
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#524Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think as long as most of the protests don't end up in violence and shop lootings they could stay.
What do you say to evidence that plainclothes police officers are tasked with infiltrating protests and stirring up shit?
In France, in most of the cases you don't need police officer for it, some people are willing to donage bank or fight with the police (especially after police overreacting, or being violent for free)
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#525Earlier quoted context omitted.
So we should forbid firefighter and farmer's union ? And all leftist union ? And we should forbid any protest where people using black block technique could agree with ?
I think as long as most of the protests don't end up in violence and shop lootings they could stay.
The fact is you don't know how will end up protest... And even when a protest end up damaging 1 mac donalds and 2 banks, most people are pacific protester... The question is how do you handle this in a democracy ?
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#526Earlier quoted context omitted.
For context: dissolution of far-right groups in France under center-left government, or generally before Macron were rare since the 90s. The reasons : - trying to kill the president (under a right-wing president, when right-wing didn't actually meant authoritarian), - actually killing someone, - terrorism (found bombs and shit). Dissolution of right wing groups under macron: - massacring gays around the pride parade…
Do you have sources for the "right-wing groups" dissoluted for "masscring gays around the pride parade" ? Thanks. I know of Generation Identitaire banned after it protested the construction of a Mosque, i didn't hear the lefties defend right to protest at that time. :)
12 june 2022 near Bordeaux, i have a friend that got cut by a bottle thrown by those retards. I think you can find multiples articles about it.
Generation Identitaire was banned the 3rd of march 2021 using "loi du 10 janvier 1936". Let's see what the "lefties" said about this law in march 2021[0]:
"Dissoudre pour mieux régner" => "Dissolve to reign better" in english
"Une procédure à abolir ?" => "A procedure to abolish?"
« la question se pose de savoir s’il est pertinent de maintenir le principe même d’une dissolution administrative » => “the question arises as to whether it is relevant to maintain the very principle of an administrative dissolution”
-----
Now, do you actually understand? We do not need this law, is is unjust and barely useful, and too flexible. It shouldn't be used, at all.
[0]: https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2021/03/PINSOLLE/62867
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
During the Trump/Biden elections, I distinctly remember the "these elections probably are also being manipulated by the Russians right now" narrative being dropped the moment it became obvious that Biden's winning. Well, if the right candidate wins, the elections must have been fair.
The elections can be skewed with different kind of manipulation (social media, troll farms, electronic ballot hacks) and the popular candidate can still win. It's fair to assume Putin would try to influence the elections in trump's favor as he would have been beneficial for him. The Ukraine invasion would have been much easier if trump had been relelected, finished pulling out of nato and kept the more isolationist p…
> The Ukraine invasion would have been much easier if trump had been relelected, finished pulling out of nato and kept the more isolationist policy that was in effect during trump.
It wouldn't have occured because NATO and the US wouldn't have been escalating it the way they did post and pre Trump.
I know this is not the right narrative (TM) but for anyone who remembers wars are not about good Vs evil but geopolitics, they'll realize the interests at play.
But hey, Iraq has WMDs and Vietnam... Er... Something.
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#528French government seems to think you can avoid an far-right upheaval by becoming the far-right themselves.
Leftists can be authoritarian too
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#529Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me your first sentence basically describe so many politicians on the French political scene from all parties ! (except for the "revolution" part which I am deeply surprise to read here) So why do you have such focus on Melanchon ? Melenchon is not alone, he is with a party with many different people, deagreing on some subject, but tending to agree on a new "more democratic" constitution. Furthermore he would need…
I see you switch from defending him (as it's impossible) to "both-siding" it, and pretending I have a "focus" on him, and then hinting that I'm just scared... Sounds like a typical LFI politician. It's disappointing. So, let's start with "Why do I have such focus on Melanchon?" That one is just dishonest. Let me remind you of your own answer that started this focus on Mélenchon: "Not sure what Melenchon is doing in i…
--- clarification and details of my initial point ---
The starting point of this exchange is me saying that I can see Le Pen or Zemmour as a potentiel threat to the current French democracy, but not Melenchon.
Le Pen is from a political party that has a long history of wanting less counter power (ending the "republic of the judge" for example") and more "authority'. And in places where her party got power, there're been some issues with NGOs or political opponent.
Zemmour clearly said that he wants less counter power, and want to care less about human rights for example.
A big part of the conservative right (they need them to get the power) agree with them on those topic. They can have the support of some influential billionaires and medias.
Melenchon and his party clearly said for several years that he wants more democracy with a concrete proposal... In his party there are a strong minority that don't want a less authoritative French state (some used to like Chevenement..) but they are a minority, and they don't want a more authoritative state. None of his allies (he needs them to access and keep power) want a more authoritative state, and some allies want a more democratic state. There is no know authoritative leftist billionaire of influential media.
Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me your first sentence basically describe so many politicians on the French political scene from all parties ! (except for the "revolution" part which I am deeply surprise to read here) So why do you have such focus on Melanchon ? Melenchon is not alone, he is with a party with many different people, deagreing on some subject, but tending to agree on a new "more democratic" constitution. Furthermore he would need…
I see you switch from defending him (as it's impossible) to "both-siding" it, and pretending I have a "focus" on him, and then hinting that I'm just scared... Sounds like a typical LFI politician. It's disappointing. So, let's start with "Why do I have such focus on Melanchon?" That one is just dishonest. Let me remind you of your own answer that started this focus on Mélenchon: "Not sure what Melenchon is doing in i…
--- Answer to your last post ---
1-
To me " permanent outrage, inflammatory discourse, obstruction of debates, conflictualization of everything, exacerbating existing social tensions" or using "vague" undefined word or using "overused catch phrase" can definitely apply to Macron, Darmanin, Ciotti, Valls, Rousseau, Wauquiez... and many others. All mainstream political party. Most of mainstream politicians doing good in the medias in 2023. And I guess we can also say they are "dishonest megalomaniac", and many have as "serious anger management issues".
All mainstream political parties (except perhaps the Greens) have had serious internal democracy problems (including falsifying votes in PS, UMP, LR).
This is bad. This does not give faith in politicians. But it seems that for you this represent a danger for democracy when it comes to Melanchon, but not when it comes to centrists or politician from the right.
- 2- About the revolution.
You said he is "defining democracy around concepts like "the revolution" ; that is absolutely not the case, especially not in the video you sent.
As I said in a previous comment, I find problematic his defense of Chavez or Castro. And this support is of course a little scary when it comes to democracy into the adversity. But Melenchon program being so different (nothing really radical in his platform - especially compared to Cuba or Venezuelan situation), in a country with much more counter power than Cuba or Venezuela, with a political plateform with a more democracy as center piece, and allies strongly against anything more authoritative in the current state... Well, that is not cool, but I don't see a real risk here
- 3 - New democracy and being vague
Most politician are often "vague". This includes la France Insoumise. Still tehy tend to produce a lot of written stuff explaining their positions for the last presidential election for exemple. Including testing their economical scenario with the Banque de France model, or detail plan about army... Here is one thing about the new constitution https://lafranceinsoumise.fr/2023/05/02/passer-a-la-6e-repub...
- 4. La France Insoumise
Your view of la France Insoumise can explain why you fear for democracy... But how did you came to this conclusion ??? That is surprising. I would not be able to say this about any political party in France. Do you know their are business owner, startupers, economists, rich people... supporting La France Insoumise ? I really think you don't know them enough. Know your enemy ;)
- 5- Communism Melenchon is not communist and his polical plateform is not communist, why this quote ?