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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#521

Post by ninefathom »

amacalac wrote: post #520
ninefathom wrote: post #519

I'm a bit perplexed that there seems to be minimal discussion on the complete technical absurdity of this ban. Within the USA, there might _possibly_ be sufficient technical infrastructure available to block app downloads at a national level. Maybe. And leaving aside the myriad circumvention routes. But at the state level? It's simply not there in the way that the legislators think. Application-level data? Turn off l…

the ban is more on Apple and Google - preventing them making the app available. My guess is that it’ll be based on the billing address of the account tied to the device. If the billing address resides in Montana, the app won’t be shown for download. Aside from that, yes, I agree. Tough to do, and mostly theatre.

Running with the billing address example... so to circumvent the ban, all one would need is a prepaid phone plan. Service addresses are collected for those, but they're basically unused and there's no incentive on the consumer end for them to be accurate.

Even on post-billed plans, getting the billing address from the mobile carrier to Google requires a degrees of cooperation that is not currently in place. Apple may have an easier time in the regard, but then again they're not likely to cooperate either.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#522

Post by pastacacioepepe »

kranke155 wrote: post #516
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> move to Shanghai and live the rest of your days there and tell me you feel just as free as in New York City. In what ways would your freedom be impacted in Shangai vs NYC? Because I know or a fact I'd able to live a normal life in Shangai. Work, grow kids, go out and enjoy entertainment, have good healthcare and so on. Is it the ability to vote your president that makes or break "freedom" for you? Well apparently ~…

> In what ways would your freedom be impacted in Shangai vs NYC? if that's actually what you believe in, no difference. To most people the differences are obvious.

> To most people the differences are obvious.

Hence no argument that you can actually explain, just a gut feeling driven by ignorance of what life in China is.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#523

Post by Jochim »

kranke155 wrote: post #453
Matl wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As 'evil' as FB is for example form my EU perspective.

So? We should allow one and not the other? What about this false equivalency between China and the US? Even in a worse case scenario, data being taken by US intelligence is given SOME form of oversight. If you believe the US and China are similarly free, I invite you to tell me if you feel like you’re as free in New York City and San Francisco as Shanghai or Shenzen. If you don’t think living in those two locations i…

Internationally, the US has burned, bombed, tortured, and assassinated the idea of equivalency out of existence.

If the problem is the behaviour of social media companies in general, legislate against that. Take note that it's not the conversation that's being had and that the people steering it have made their agenda, and ignorance, rather clear.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#524

Post by ninefathom »

barathr wrote: post #195

I wrote up a quick analysis last night here: https://ioc.exchange/@invisv/110387246627189198 Here are the takeaways: * It'd be easy for Apple and Google to prevent downloads of TikTok for most users, which would also include app updates, as they have a significant amount of knowledge of users' locations and could prevent most users in Montana -- even those using a VPN -- from downloading the app or updating it. * It'…

This comes back to something I mentioned elsewhere:

What's good enough for an advertiser trying to sell concert tickets is not necessarily good enough for enforcing legal prohibitions.

The location collection mechanisms built by Apple and Google that would be effective at a state or regional level within the US have been built for advertising, with secondary purposes of opt-in anti-theft. They weren't built for continuous, rigorous enforcement of legal prohibitions within a given sub-region of the USA.

I think you're asserting that e.g. 90% of TikTok users in Montana would be impacted by the ban, and 10% would find a way around. For advertisers, that's fine. For enforcement of a law? Bzzzzzz! That's gonna be arbitrary-and-capricious'ed right out of the courtroom doors.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#525

Post by falcolas »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #349
falcolas wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be hard to identify a phone associated with a "Montana citizen". Not impossible, but I think that based on Apple and Google's comments on these laws that they haven't built the functionality in. GeoIP doesn't work because carriers (especially in Montana) tend to assign IPs from surrounding states as much as they do local cities. When I'm on the cell network, I'm regularly identified as coming out of Denver. Phon…

> It'd be hard to identify a phone associated with a "Montana citizen" Credit card billing address.

That is definitely another method, but there's no guarantee that Apple or Google has my credit card.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#526

Post by kranke155 »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #522
kranke155 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what ways would your freedom be impacted in Shangai vs NYC? if that's actually what you believe in, no difference. To most people the differences are obvious.

> To most people the differences are obvious. Hence no argument that you can actually explain, just a gut feeling driven by ignorance of what life in China is.

I'm sure whatever I write, you will find a straw man to vindicate your own feelings.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#527

Post by badpun »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #401
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a hypothetical. Hypothetically suppose we all agree that TikTok usage should be reduced. You are a state legislator. What do you do?

Make using it a criminal offense with minimum mandatory sentence of 5 years in prison.

Let's punish every act that we don't want to see with death (or, at a minimum, cutting off a hand), that will solve world's problems for sure.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#528

Post by pastacacioepepe »

kranke155 wrote: post #526
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To most people the differences are obvious. Hence no argument that you can actually explain, just a gut feeling driven by ignorance of what life in China is.

I'm sure whatever I write, you will find a straw man to vindicate your own feelings.

It must be hard to have opinions so fragile that they can't stand a discussion.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#529

Post by kranke155 »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #528
kranke155 wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure whatever I write, you will find a straw man to vindicate your own feelings.

It must be hard to have opinions so fragile that they can't stand a discussion.

There you go. You have way too much time, reply to every comment. Typical.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#530

Post by therealcamino »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #442
Nanana909 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's because of China, then ban TikTok and subsidize a competitor app - but be serious about it. Be ready to spend hundreds of ..... Domestic competitors have already published their equivalents though, no subsidied required. It's not a very complicated app - they had clones up in months. Most popular Tik-Tokers already repost their content on these anyways. Why do we need to subsidize naything? This already exi…

> Why do we need to subsidize naything? This already exists. Because the problem presented here is: government bans TikTok, teenagers become experts at using VPN apps to work around the ban. Social media apps live on network effects - it's near-impossible to compete with a well-established giant directly. But this also means that, if you manage to pull a critical mass of users over from your direct competitor, most o…

Somehow I'm skeptical of your scenario where teenagers flock to government-sponsored social media.
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