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Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

oceanservice.noaa.gov

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Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#521

Post by gooseyman »

SoapSeller wrote: post #366
bluefirebrand wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would probably throw my girlfriend off. She has some kind of right/left dyslexia. When she's driving and I'm giving directions I have to tell her "short turn" or "long turn". Long turn being left, longer because it's across a lane, right turns are shorter. But if someone told her that left is shorter than right for remembering purposes, it would probably mess her up more when following driving directions.

My driving instructor had short pieces of colored tape on the beams between the windshield and side windows. He would say to people with such problem "turn in the next left blue" every time. So when they got to their test and and the tester will say to them "turn in the next right" their brain will add a "red" and they will look it up in the car and find it on the right beam. He claimed it usually solved the issue.

I'm interested in the about the phrasing "in the next left/right."

Are you located in the US?

I moved from the mid-west to NYC and learned a fun regional language difference about waiting with others: Those from the NYC area say that they are "standing on line" whereas I had grown up saying "standing in line."

That little in vs. on sounds so different!

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#522

Post by tuatoru »

gorbypark wrote: post #507
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

In the skiing and mountaineering world we use climbers (sometimes “lookers”) right/left or skiers right/left to differentiate when facing uphill or downhill. I find having both is helpful instead of just having a single standardized one. For example, if you are standing and looking at a mountain, it’s easier to say “just to the climbers left of that peak” because it’s on the left from your perspective, likewise when…

And in general hiking, referring to streams and rivers one may follow or cross, there are the "true left" and "true right" banks of the stream. Meaning, left or right looking the way the water is flowing: downstream.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#523

Post by xpe »

jdmichal wrote: post #504
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what I meant, but said in a facetious way. If someone is complaining about lower right abdominal pain that could be the appendix, when lower left would not be.

Ah I get it now. Sorry for the density.

Don’t apologize; we all benefit from a good chuckle.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#524

Post by xpe »

runlaszlorun wrote: post #495
jdmichal wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People only have one appendix to start with. Did you mean appendage?

Perhaps they have -1 now. Either that or my recent C excursions have me thinking in buffer overruns and index errors.

The official recordbooks will now show that patient is officially the first to lose an appendix but gain a preface.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#525

Post by dabluecaboose »

johnwalkr wrote: post #515
TeMPOraL wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it has to do with how many frames of reference you're juggling in a task/profession. With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. Then there's space, where it gets even more fun, as the relevant frames - the ship, the orbit (or the "centre of gravity" of everything pulling on you) - are completely independent. That is…

The convention for orbital spacecraft is that the local coordinate system has +z facing whatever it is orbiting and +x facing travel direction. Then you can refer to directions relative to the spacecraft such as "+x", "-y", etc. The space shuttle normally orbited with it's payload bay, opposite of the landing gear facing Earth. The payload bay was +z direction. From the layperson's point of view, the shuttle orbited…

That's a convention, but hardly the convention.

I used to work satellite navigation for NOAA. For the GOES sats we often used Intrack (Prograde/Retrograde), Crosstrack (Normal/Anti-normal), and Radial (Towards planet/away from). I don't think anyone really referred to any directions as "plus x" or "minus y"

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#526

Post by lancefisher »

ethbr0 wrote: post #453
TeMPOraL wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it has to do with how many frames of reference you're juggling in a task/profession. With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. Then there's space, where it gets even more fun, as the relevant frames - the ship, the orbit (or the "centre of gravity" of everything pulling on you) - are completely independent. That is…

> With boats, others mentioned that wind provides its own frame, and there are separate words still for "left" and "right" in that frame. There's windward (towards/upwind) and leeward (away/downwind). Are there left and right too? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windward_and_leeward

What matters to sailors with respect to the wind is the angle which it meets the boat or the orientation of the boat with regard to the direction of the wind. For that there are dedicated names known as the points of sail which include: close hauled, close reach, beam reach, broad reach, run, and in irons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_sail

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#528

Post by anamexis »

OnlyMortal wrote: post #527

Because the words come from Dutch nautical terms. “Starboard” is really “Steer-board”, an external keel on one side of a boat. Therefore Port is the only side of the boat that can dock to the port.

Old English, actually, as the very succinct OP explains

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#529

Post by vel0city »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #442
philo23 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess some could argue that we do have some special vocabulary for cars too. E.g. you don't call it the front/back door, you call it the bonnet/boot (or maybe hood/trunk depending where you're from) though that probably is stretching the definition of a door a little bit... but then you also have nearside and offside for passengers/drivers side, though that's probably a bit more of a technical term.

> though that probably is stretching the definition of a door a little bit... It is, but then so is the stupid "3-door" / "5-door" / etc. car classification, which is really 2-door / 4-door / etc. with the trunk being counted as additional door for some reason.

The trunk is considered a door when it opens into the main cabin instead of a separate compartment.

Re: Why do ships use “port” and “starboard” instead of “left” and “right?”

#530

Post by xpe »

blantonl wrote: post #478
antognini wrote: post #89

It's interesting to compare how different professions handle the ambiguity in left/right. In the maritime world they went with an approach at one extreme, where they just use two completely separate words, "port" and "starboard." (Though that's far from the only case where there's a special word for something on a boat.) At the other extreme you have the medical profession where the first thing you learn in medical s…

Some other persepctives: "Skier's left/right" for snow skiing. Ambiguity arises when looking uphill or downhill. When riding on a float in Mardi Gras in New Orleans. You might be on the "driver's side" or "passenger's side". You could also be on the neutral ground side (left) or the other side. Or the rider could be on the "lake side" (left) or the river side (right). Parades run South to North and the Mississippi Ri…

> "Skier's left/right" for snow skiing. Ambiguity arises when looking uphill or downhill.

But what about “snowboarder’s left”… sounds a lot like “starboard’s left” at which everybody on the fake ski slope on the cruise ship gets incredibly confused? We have to drive out all ambiguity here, or people are doing to die.

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