Earlier quoted context omitted.
Possible to Elaborate?
tl;dr: Nobody is steering the ship because they don't know they're on a ship. Or that the ocean exists. It's hard without doxxing myself or calling out specific people and organizations which I'd rather not because I'm a nobody and can't afford lawsuits, but for various reasons I ended up political education and marketing for civics advocacy. Ish. To be semi on topic, I know some people who are published in the WSJ (…
The Contradictions of Sam Altman
521–530 of 564 posts
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#522Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're doing very well too, but the company was founded by people from OpenAI, so it'd seem they took a lot of know-how with them.
Or brought that know how into OpenAI in the first place?
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#523Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not the job of the government, it's the job of citizens. Citizens MAY outsource parts of this to governments, but we primarily need labor and the working class to have the majority of economic power. https://libcom.org/library/workers-control-wage-system-ideas... I'm dedicating my life to building for-profit commercial cooperatives based on this simple principle of voluntary association.
> It's not the job of the government, it's the job of citizens If only there was a system of government designed from first principles to reflect the will of the people... This is just librarian tautology. It's not wrong, but any "citizen" organization you can imagine to implement whatever policy it is you want[1] is going to be isomorphic to a democratic government. [1] You skipped this part!
This false and defeatist dichotomy between Government dictatorships or Private dictatorships lays bare how truly depraved most thinking is around what constitutes human flourishing and liberty.
Hence why I gave you that link
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#524Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The immediate implications will be decided by Sam Altman and his team. I hope on behalf of us all that they’re up to the challenge. Will they really be determined by OpenAI? So far what Altman has accomplished with OpenAI is to push a lot of existing research tech out into the open world (with improvements, of course.) This has in turn forced the hands of the original developers at Google and Meta to push their own…
> existing research tech out into the open world (with improvements, of course. That’s quite the understatement, isn’t it? Neither Google nor Meta have been able to demonstrate something to the public that resonates even close the the altitude that OpenAI has.
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#525To all the detractors of work ethic and the supporters of UBI: What freedom will exist in a world where everyone is reliant on their government for survival, and all mass communication is mediated by or written by opaque AIs? In trading the yoke of labor for free time we would also trade our independence, and any hope of changing the structure of power that had been set in place. I'm so sick of our new style of wanna…
How does an economy function when the surplus value of labor is derived from machinery instead of humans?
I know the past answer to this has been that people will just shift to operating or maintenance of the machines, but this shift is fundamentally different because the shift is of mind-power.
We have been able to build machines that can deftly do anything that a human can do, and even replicate this capacity in human morphology. The problem has always been operating these machines in a way that replicates or improves upon human ability. Now that we are building machines that can be trained on existing data and synthesize novel solutions based upon that training, the need for human intervention in automated processes, including in the maintenance and repair of this processes, will drop precipitously.
Let us consider the economics of a robot, assuming a general purpose anthropoid robot that ca be trained in most commercial processes, and presuppose that the mind for such a device will soon be available either by subscription or in an embodied form.
We might see something like this:
Mass produced cost will probably be similar to an automobile, at 20-200x the cost per kilogram of automotive engineering so about 30-300 thousand euros. Service life between overhauls at the indicated forces and speeds should achieve approximately 1 billion pivot revolutions if we assume the surface sliding/rotation movement durability of modern mass produced machines. This would translate to about or 8 billion steps or 1/8 rotation gestures. If we assume 1 such gesture or step per second, that translates into a mechanical service life of about 2.2 million hours, or a mechanical cost of 0.014 to 0.14 euros an hour.
Now let us consider the cost of batteries, assuming that cost per capacity remains flat.
Current production technologies allow for about $100 per kWh of battery capacity, with a 4000 cycle lifespan. If we assume that the robot exerts an average of 500w over its lifespan of 2.2 million hours, the battery maintenance cost of maintaining that output will be approximately 30,000 additional euros in battery replacements. The electricity itself, at .10 per kWh, will cost more at about 100,000 euros over the useful life of the robot.
If we add all of this up we end up with 300k in machinery (200x as expensive as a car, or 1/3 the cost of a fighter jet per kg), 30k in batteries, 100k in electricity, and 3000 months of mind subscription at 100 euros a month per unit, we end up at about 750k lifetime cost for a machine that should be operational for about 250 years if it operates 24 hours day.
Now, let’s assume that those same energy, compute, battery, and mechanical costs are compressed into only 25 years of useful service.
That would be about 3.25 euros an hour. But that assumes that it is 1/10 as durable as modern automotive machinery yet costs 200 times as much per kg, costs 1000 a month in compute costs and consumes 5kw 24/7. -a pretty pessimistic figure.
So we can say that GP anthropoid robots will probably cost between 0.33 and 3.30 euros per hour to operate and is less costly to acquire than a front end loader or a farm tractor. And it will be built and maintained by the selfsame machines.
This is what we are facing.
New solutions are needed.
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#526Earlier quoted context omitted.
So does the private sector. At least the public has some say in governance. Who wins?
The private sector's interest aligns with the market, at least on the average, as long as they are not allowed to illegally obtain a monopoly. The market, then, is assumed to be rational on average, and thus all participants in the market would make decisions in their own best interest, and thus, obtain the best outcome for themselves that is possible. Those who do not choose optimally is then selected out by economi…
This is the basic capitalist lie - Do you think Norfolk Southern's interests align with the "market" of Palestine? On what planet do Amazon drivers have the same incentive alignment a Amazon shareholders? No, the argument is "tough shit" go find some place that does, it's a "free market" just move your entire life any abandon community to follow around making money for a private dictator.
Unfortunately the entire profit or bust ethos isn't constrained to one company - any company that has profit as it's primary driver, aka any public company or VC backed company, MUST pursue profits over all things OR THEY WILL BE KILLED BY THEIR OWN INVESTORS. Further, now it's every individual that is required to pursue profit at all costs or - go broke and die - without healthcare because the "market" of healthcare isn't aligned with you the customer.
This lie is so pervasive that the entire field of Economics ASSUMES capitalism as the only possible economic system today (Economics was my field of study!) and anything other than it is "heterodox."
So no, you're simply describing the devastatingly broken system as though it's the only suitable option
In fact, all of the economists that wrote originally about the "market" described precisely how it would be corrupted into what it is today
Go read Veblen from 1899: Theory of the Leisure class then read chapter three of the wealth of nations and then come talk with me
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
The government looks after its own interests. That is what an institution does. A government isn't different than a corporation or any other organization this way. Delegating powers to a government for the common good does not change any of this. The people still have the job of ensuring the government carries that out properly because its priority is and always will be foremost itself, so the people have to ensure t…
So does the private sector. At least the public has some say in governance. Who wins?
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#528Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am astonished how anyone could just make a statement like this, here. It's so sticky, it's so damning and brash. It offers absolutely no proof, while contradicting what sama says themselves. And we are entirely fine with that. Top of the comments after 7 hours. Note, I am not claiming it could not be true. That is entirely beside my point. The issue is, that it could be entirely untrue. And I really mean, every sin…
I can think of exactly zero other reasons to have engineered the privatization of a charity, other than greed. The balance of probabilities indicates to me that the attempt at regulatory capture is also based in greed, but if you have a different view, I'd love to hear your logic. After all, if AI proliferation were as dangerous as Altman seems to claim, then why is the answer "OpenAI should continue to provide unfet…
The question has recently been asked by Lex Fridman and answered by Sam Altman. This is the clip: https://youtu.be/qQdqFZFZQ6o
To quote: "We learned early on that were gonna need far more capital than we were able to raise as a non-profit" (you can listen in on it being expanded over 3 Minutes)
Now, since I can almost feel the goal-post-shifting coming, this seems like a good time to align: You claimed you could see no reason. Their reason is: They had a model. Then they figured it was wrong. They adjusted their model.
This is not an insane or unreasonable process. This is how we know things get adjusted all the time. We agree with it on principle.
Now, of course, there are a lot of possible, unfavorable interpretations, even if we can agree up to here. A couple:
a) Despite the process making sense, that's not what happened. Sam might be lying or deceiving. He may be leaving things unsaid, or it could all be a long-planned con, etc. All of this might be entirely possible, and I did not do the work to disprove this option. BUT: as a general rule, we always agree that the burden of proof is on the accuser, in court and in civil discourse. Walking up to people and saying "You stole!", them being irritated, and you saying "Well! Prove me otherwise!" is just not how we do things. I am aware that in practice we often are willing to apply different rules to the very poor, the very rich, or people we just dislike.
b) Sam is incompetent or delusional. Someone else could have made it work without going the route they did. Maybe it would have worked, and he is just... bad at math? Certainly a possibility. Similar to the above, if you want to make this claim without discrediting yourself: Show your work. Reason us through it.
c) This move was illegal. I am not a lawyer, but since I wouldn't rate this thought as particularly groundbreaking, I am okay with assuming someone raised the concern during the transition, lawyers were consulted, and it was a legal option.
d) It's simply immoral to go on, at best the exploitation of a loophole, at worst the biggest treason to humankind. If "open" cannot mean "open source" anymore, before making this transition, letting the company fail was the right move. This is an entirely understandable position, and I can empathize with the feelings it triggers. It requires no evidence, and it requires no claims about greed. It's an opinion piece. Fair enough.
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#529Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone (to a close approximation) is already reliant on their government for survival. Taking yourself out of society and its interdependencies is already basically impossible. (This is not an argument against all points you are making, I just wanted to say something to that aspect of your comment.)
There’s a big difference between being indirectly dependent on the government to maintain society, and being hand-to-mouth dependent on the government for food/welfare. As most people who have been in the latter situation can attest (at least outside of super rich countries like Norway), it is a distinctly less dignified existence. You live in constant uncertainty that your source of food, source of existence could b…
You live in constant uncertainty that your source of food, source of existence could be withdrawn at any time by corporate whim
Question: Who do you think the police work for? Hint: It's neither "citizens" nor is it "the government" They work for corporations. Go look at how they act. The whole goal is to provide security for private property holders (aka not you) and increasingly they are private mercenaries that have day jobs as city/state/county policeman. Ask a cop where their "overtime" pay comes from and it's typically protecting some business.
Economic and political power should be dispersed as much as possible into the hands of the citizens, not anyone who was able to wrest as much control as possible from others - which is how we apportion it.
Do you ask "how did this company I'm applying to get to this position?" If not then you're not doing anything different than picking a political party without due diligence.
The act of consolidating power destroys the ethical standing of the institution
Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's funny how no one sees it. Sam Altman is a "successful" entrepreneur, yet he never had a successful company. He made loopt, a defunct company which raised serious money at the time, and then he suddenly made it to YC as a partner. He, then, quickly rose through the ranks to become president of YC. Think of that for a second. OpenAI is a company that can barely ship a functioning website, or have proper security f…
> OpenAI is a company that can barely ship a functioning website, or have proper security for basic stuff. You'd not expect this company to be the future of AI, do you? In case you didn't know: ML researchers are infamous for being bad at traditional software engineering. That's why, I personally don't think whether a company can "proper security for basic stuff" has much correlation with probability of achieving AGI…