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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, exactly. There are tons of schools outside of this that still shape kids into productive members of society, even if non-elite. Places like University of New Haven (acceptance rate 94%, founded 1920), Central Washington University (88%, 1891), Western Washington University (96%, 1886), Stetson University in Florida... The list goes on. The vast of US college students attend these decent and non-selective school…

Such high acceptance rates are a red flag. What are the first and second year failure rates? Taking in everyone means nothing if you then kick half out, essentially turning first year into an extended application process.

I think having an extended application process is the point. It selects for people who are good at university, rather than people who were good at high school.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re going to get a bias in here because a lot of folks are STEM focused / high achieving high anxiety types :)

> You’re going to get a bias in here because a lot of folks are STEM focused / high achieving high anxiety types :) yeah, but you'd expect STEM types to know how to analyze data and realize they aren't the majority and that these studies are not representative of them. I am disappoint.

This is very a common & a very hard to completely avoid bias your entire life. I had tenured (internationally renowned) math professors at university that would sometimes intuitively react like that to stuff in everyday life. Cut people some slack.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#523
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the opposite could be true – that we're too quick to diagnose mental illnesses in kids today. In the last few years I've witnessed several kids in my family get referred to doctors for potential mental illnesses and then end up on a cocktail of drugs as a result. It's something I've found really difficult because I was never personally convinced they were mentally ill in the first place and in many cases thes…

Well my friends weren't really convinced either when I told them about my ADHD diagnosis. Luckily for me I seriously did my homework on it, and finally getting treatment has helped a lot. In the last several years since getting diagnosed I have done a lot of reading on the brain, trauma, mental illness etc. I've come to learn that actually a surprisingly large number of people have something going on, and whatever th…

> I've come to learn that actually a surprisingly large number of people have something going on, and whatever that something happens to be is complex enough that laypeople aren't in a position to understand it very well or at all.

I think I have a different perspective on things.

I'm far from normal. I'm prone to depression and anxiety. I'm autistic and anti-social. Most people would suggest there is at least one or two things "wrong" with me.

And sure, I clearly have issues and I'm not "normal", but I suppose I don't seek to be normal either.

I think our increased fixation on being as neurologically normal as possible is half the problem we're having with the increase in mental illness today. And it's possibly being over diagnosed.

You could make an extremely good case for me needing anti-depressants and how they would make me functionally closer to what we consider "normal". Similarly, with the anxious teen I was talking about in my prior comment – anti-anxiety meds would probably make her more "normal" too. But the assumption in both cases would be that normal is always better, which I don't agree with.

Growing up I was taught to hate myself for being different. In my early twenties I went through a bit of a crisis where for the first time I realised how much harder employment was going to be for me as an anti-social autistic weirdo. I hated myself more than ever – why I am autistic, why can't I be normal – I'd ask. But there's only something wrong with me from the perspective of others. I have no problem with myself apart from the fact I struggle to satisfy the preferences of those around me.

It was going down that route where for the first time in my life I actually started to question whether I was the one with the problem or if the world had a problem with me that finally gave me a much healthier outlook on things. The reality is there are just certain people who won't get me and will refuse to try to understand me.

This is a lesser problem today, but I suppose I had this also with my sexuality growing up. There was such an obsession with being hetrosexual that if you were anything but it was easy to hate yourself for being different and wish there was a drug you could take to be normal. Again, it's not that being gay (or whatever else) is an issue to you as an individual, it's that being gay is an issue to others which drives self-hatred.

My whole life I've had to try to get along with happy, extrovert neurotypicals, and rarely will they do the same in return. Instead these people suggest I need to drug myself so I'm more like them – "normal". So screw them.

These days I just embrace myself. I'm awkward as hell. But if you have a problem with that, then piss off – I'll find people who are okay with me as I am.

But what I find funny is that my girlfriend suffers the exact opposite problem to me. She's unable to see the negative side of anything. She's constantly happy and chirpy to the point of often being delusional. But she's seen as normal... But we work because I accept her and she accepts me, and we balance each other out. I'm the one who worries how we're going to address everything that might go wrong in our lives and she keeps us focused on the positive outcomes we're working towards.

Over time I've come to realise there's strength in the vast majority of these "mental illnesses" if we're able to accept them. I can only speak for myself here, and obviously others need to do what's right for them, but my depression and anxiety is no simply longer a problem in the way it used to be because of how I view it and allow it today.

So I guess I don't even understand why you would view ADHD as an issue? Why weren't you able embrace that side of yourself? My understanding is that people who have ADHD are super creative and tend to be less mentally restricted than people like myself? Did you have a problem with your ADHD because the world had a problem with you?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#524
I think in 2012 you couldn't look back and say that things had changed because these findings were still near their historical averages. But looking back from now it appears the upward trend started in 2010, which tracks with the effects of the Global Financial Crisis. It is possibly leveling out now, and who knows the directionality in the future.

Are these findings substantially different from other groups? Do 30-35 and 40-45 experience a different trend? Is there any cohort data?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#525
post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

>If we want a healthier society, we need to take a step back and give teenagers a chance to actually live life. We need something like Rumspringa[1], a period in life when I young person is given a bit of slack, and is expected to eventually voluntarily take upon themselves the duties and responsibilities of an adult, or leave the community. I can't find it now[2], but I remember either Joseph Campbell, or some other…

In Europe this is "gap year". America needs it agreed.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, exactly. There are tons of schools outside of this that still shape kids into productive members of society, even if non-elite. Places like University of New Haven (acceptance rate 94%, founded 1920), Central Washington University (88%, 1891), Western Washington University (96%, 1886), Stetson University in Florida... The list goes on. The vast of US college students attend these decent and non-selective school…

When I went to Western in early 00s, the CS department's theory seemed to be to allow anyone to attempt to join, and then just ruthlessly fail people in the first year. Between Ada, Scheme, C, and C++, class sizes shrunk fast . IMHO this is more fair than making the department hard to get into. Let everyone have a go at it.

> the CS department's theory seemed to be to allow anyone to attempt to join, and then just ruthlessly fail people in the first year.

That’s quite typical in other places of the world as well. In Italy is just like that for most stem programs; admission is granted to everybody, but the 1st year is just brutal and boring. A lot of people drop.

The upside is that you don’t have that stress on admission. The downside is that some good people lacking grit just drop after 1-2 years (or just take ages to get their degrees) because such classes look pointless but very hard to them - and they’re mostly right.

Note: we don’t usually grade on a curve in Italy. But 80% of the class failing the first time is not unheard of (you don’t get your failing grades recorded or re-pay for retaking a class, either).

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#527
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidence that scars are an inherently better tissue than non injured tissue. Torn ligaments, cut tendons, skin marring from burns, etc… these don’t bounce back 110% from their original.

You missed the point there. Going though hardships and injuries (to an extent) builds mental resilience and the ability to accept risks without succumbing to irrational panic.

Im not missing the point. The OP was making a wrong statement as evidence for wrong conclusions.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#528

If you look at longer-term data there doesn't appear to be any recent trend at all. For example look at https://www.childtrends.org/publications/teen-suicide-databa... Looking at the "suicide attempts requiring medical attention" we see a low of 1.7% in 1991, then a peak of 2.8% in 1995, and another low in 1.9%, and then now another peak (but less than 1995). For actual suicides I found this chart https://www.cdc.gov…

We didn't have smartphones, but we did have cell phones. I was in 7/8th grade at that time and had a cell phone as a lower middle class kid. I mainly used it to call my parents or text with friends. That time was shortly after providers moved to unlimited calls/texts in the US because kids would steamroll through a billion sms messages anyway.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#529
As a teenager myself, I definitely think that this recent rise in teen mental illness epidemic worldwide is definitely due to the fact that we are globalizing American concepts of mental health. I probably wonder if naming and pointing to a mental health problem is making it worse.

There have been similar phenomena worldwide, from the recent anorexia rise in Hong Kong, to depression in Japan.[0] https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-crazy-like...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The increase in suicide rates for both genders (but especially females) are astounding. I really don't believe that any changes in treatment have been so radical as to cause this to manifest the way it has.

Tell someone with an issue with their physical condition that it is because of diet and lack of exercise and many would change habits, tell them it's due to a incurable but perhaps treatable cancer and some will chose suicide. Tell kids that they are unhappy due to choices made in day to day life and they might change those choices, tell them it's due to a incurable but maybe treatable issue with their brain and some…

I don't doubt that it couldn't in absolute terms, I doubt the timeline in which this happened: treatment protocols don't change that rapidly for this very reason.
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