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Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

economist.com

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Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#521

Post by nostromo »

JCharante wrote: post #496
nostromo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming Amazon is misplaced. Blame the people stealing and the system that refuses to prosecute them.

Why doesn't amazon just simply require receipts or invoices when you send stuff to their warehouses for FBA?

Receipts and invoices are dead simple to forge.

Besides, if I want to sell a used book on Amazon, maybe I don’t have the receipt anymore.

No, the easiest solution is to prosecute shoplifters - not to reorganize honest society around them.

If cities don’t want to do that anymore then products will be expensive and difficult to buy - and eventually there will only be Amazon left.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#522

Post by puchatek »

endominus wrote: post #448
selimthegrim wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Satan really mean like cross examiner or something

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan , it means "Accuser" and "Adversary". Apparently (according to my foggy memories of a video essay about some high-art film) Satan was originally just the dude that would accuse you of all your sins you committed while mortal.

Let me guess, he got concerned about job security when all those monotheistic religions and their high horse morals developed and so he decided to actively prop up the supply side?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#523

Post by jakelazaroff »

josephcsible wrote: post #477
jakelazaroff wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shoplifting is actually one of the least harmful forms of theft, in terms of dollars stolen. Wage theft costs orders of magnitude more. A few years ago, money stolen by police via civil forfeiture surpassed the amount stolen by burglars. Yet the form of theft I hear the most about, by far , is shoplifting. Why do you think that is?

Why don't we use the terms "rent theft" or "loan theft" when people don't pay their rent or loan payments, since we use the term "wage theft" when companies don't pay their wages? In all of those cases, isn't it just not giving someone what you owe, rather than taking something away from someone?

Shoplifting is also simply refusing to pay what you owe (the price of the merchandise).

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#524

Post by nostromo »

balls187 wrote: post #352
nostromo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming Amazon is misplaced. Blame the people stealing and the system that refuses to prosecute them.

It’s not about blame. If Amazon can ship products to my house within 2-hours, it certainly can crack down on selling stolen goods. It just has zero incentive to.

New York City has tens of thousands of cops - they certainly can crack down on theft better than can Amazon.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#525

Post by Kbelicius »

prvit wrote: post #353
TillE wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without American cop show bluster, without pretrial detention except for serious crimes, and without lengthy prison sentences.

Mostly, except pretrial detention for minor crimes is unfortunately still not that uncommon in Europe. The lack of bail often makes this worse, a weird obsession with “fairness” forces us to continue locking up people with sufficient assets to insure against absconding. Poor people can’t afford bail? Better make everyone else suffer too.

So what you are basically saying is that poor people should suffer more for committing the same crime as someone rich.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#526

Post by notch656a »

woodruffw wrote: post #500
prvit wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the expectation is that they apply reasonable effort to doing so, including demonstrating a response to publicly known incidents of crime rings operating on their site. Again, rule of law. Reasonable effort is to do nothing unless they have information that would make a reasonable person believe that the specific goods were stolen. There’s no expectation that Amazon would investigate the providence of the goods the…

> No, I’m not. Amazon receives unimaginable amounts of goods, of which only a vanishingly small fraction is stolen goods. This simply does not matter in the eyes of the law. What matters is receiving stolen goods, period . The degree to which they do will solely determine the degree of the statute applied. I think I'm just repeating myself at this point, so this will be the last time: there are different standards fo…

I'm really interested why these "warnings" weren't subpoenas or warrants, especially if this is happening in multiple municipalities as you state. Is it some conspiracy across the US to not charge Amazon when probable cause is present, but instead send "warnings."

Not saying warnings don't happen when probable cause exists to prosecute a crime, but I think we're missing the content of these warnings before we get ahead of ourselves about what to think about them.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#527

Post by ehnto »

crackercrews wrote: post #519
aliqot wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One or two in a year? Is this a passing hobby or a hygiene regimen?

How many do you go through? Probably 2 for me. Definitely not more than 3.

I think this conversation will be measuring string. Too many variables. What size container? What's the weather like where you are? How much do you put on each application? What do you do day to day? What's the weather like where you live?

I live in Australia, and I am really active. Safe to say I will be sweating a lot more than someone living in Alaska who's a homebody, and so may use a bit more deodorant.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#528

Post by paul7986 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #297
axutio wrote: post #161

Most of the comments here are ignoring the difference between regular old shoplifting and the trend driving the increase discussed in the article, which they're referring to as "organized retail crime". I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of s…

> I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of stolen baby formula on eBay". I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail…

Allowing those to shoplift / turn a blind eye to it is a breakdown of society!

What are the good reasons that led to and allows this?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#529

Post by karatinversion »

dls2016 wrote: post #415
capitalsigma wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understaffing doesn't justify crime. You probably understaff your home security, leaving it empty all day while you're at work. Do you deserve to be robbed?

> Understaffing doesn't justify crime. Noting the existence of theft throughout the ages is not an endorsement. My point is that we should be careful who we ask to pay for enforcement. It's expensive to maintain a system of courts and jails for petty crimes. Rikers is a rather egregious example, but almost $1 billion per year where 85% of detainees are pretrial! I think it's legitimate to ask to what exent the commun…

The community pays either way - they are the source of the revenue that has to cover any private enforcement! Law enforcement is a public good and will be under supplied by private parties that cannot internalise all the gain!

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#530

Post by crackercrews »

public_defender wrote: post #317
bhk wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is clearly not true. > Manhattan D.A. Acts on Vow to Seek Incarceration Only for Worst Crimes > The district attorney, Alvin Bragg, told prosecutors in his office in a memo that they should ask judges for jail or prison time only for the most serious offenses — including murder, sexual assault and economic crimes involving vast sums of money — unless the law requires them to do otherwise. https://www.nytimes.com…

It clearly is true. I can actually watch it happen. You can too, if you go to arraignments in NYC. The line ADAs have no discretion to dismiss petit larceny (shoplifting) at arraignment. They need supervisor approval. There are other cases like driving under suspension (VTL 511 -- mentioned in GP) where they do have this discretion. There is a reason for the difference, which is that petit larceny is a priority. Also…

Aren't most shoplifters not even caught? Police don't investigate because the city won't prosecute. And shops won't report because police won't investigate.

Maybe what you say is true about arraignments. But that assumes that someone has been reported, investigated, and caught.

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