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Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

kite.com

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Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#521

Post by dopamean »

jareds wrote: post #494
nopenopenopeno wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kotlin is such a lovely language, and I really like that it was made by JetBrains because that means I can count on a top notch IDE/development experience.

The fact that Kotlin was created by JetBrains and appears to require their IDE to be productive is the reason I have no interest in it. I'm totally blind and while JetBrains IDE's are technically accessible with my screen reading software they are difficult to use unlike VSCode which makes an effort to be plesent to use with screen reader software not just technically possible to use.

Who said that kotlin requires intellij? Not a rhetorical question. I've never heard that claim before. Afaict there's nothing about the language that would make it impossible to use in another ide.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#522

Post by trilobyte »

LtWorf wrote: post #455
dijit wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which category? Ones I excluded for bring "not worth it" are Lens ($20/user/mo), Snyk ($139/user/month) and Postman ($36/user/month) - contrast those with Gitlabs pricing to understand the value trade-off.

What's the point of using snyk AND copilot? You either care about licenses of dependencies or just decide copyright doesn't apply to you :D Seems that using both is a contradiction.

Snyk is for security scanning. How is that a contradiction w/ copilot?

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#523

Post by raveenb »

Kite was good, integrations were plentiful, sad to see them go! I hope Tabnine learns from this and ups their game, I love what they are doing. Not so sold on Github Copilot yet, and probably the observations of Kite are applicable to Github Copilot, but due to their deeper pockets they may survive long enough to make to the AI breakthrough needed to get this product/class of products flying!

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#524

Post by ShamelessC »

epolanski wrote: post #130
ShamelessC wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I understand. I just see a lot of people on here who seem to be deliberately looking for reasons not to like Copilot. You don't fit that stereotype, of course. So feel free to ignore the following. Developer tools have learning curves. One doesn't simply open vim/emacs for the first time with a full understanding of how to use it (or why it's a good tool to use, even). Historically, we have had _no_ problem wit…

Risking breaking copyright and not supporting a model of code laundering isn't exactly looking for reasons.

I don’t see how that’s relevant to anything in my comment, but since you brought it up I assume you take both of those notions as a given - but they aren’t necessarily concerns of all programmers.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#525

Post by ShamelessC »

wittycardio wrote: post #202
ShamelessC wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I understand. I just see a lot of people on here who seem to be deliberately looking for reasons not to like Copilot. You don't fit that stereotype, of course. So feel free to ignore the following. Developer tools have learning curves. One doesn't simply open vim/emacs for the first time with a full understanding of how to use it (or why it's a good tool to use, even). Historically, we have had _no_ problem wit…

The difference between other Dev tools and GitHub is the probability of getting things wrong. Like when intellij types out boilerplate or a compiler generates code it's 100 percent correct and if it fails, it fails predictably. Copilot is impressive sometimes but there's no guarantee of correctness or failure mode. I cannot trust such tools for anything serious. If you're in the habit of copy / pasting code from the…

Your response is essentially the same as my given example (“it output a bug??”).

Thanks for the rigorous examination of my comment though. /s

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#526

Post by qw3rty01 »

madsbuch wrote: post #425
lolinder wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just the time saved writing tests alone pays for it. This, so much. My code since using Copilot is easily ten times better tested than it was before, and I wasn't especially lazy when it comes to testing. Given 1-2 hand-written unit tests, Copilot can start filling in test bodies that correctly test what's described in the function name. When I can't think of any more edge cases, I'll go prompt it with one more @Te…

APIs are not copyrightable (Oracle vs Google). However, the code that interacts with an API might be. Regardless, it is interesting to think about what domains are easier to generate effective models for. I would expect it to be easier to generate a supervised model => . My intuition is also, that it is easier to generate React component code, and harder to generate feature code.

Unfortunately that ruling was overturned and APIs were found to be copyrightable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_LLC_v._Oracle_America,_...

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#528

Post by bjarneh »

danenania wrote: post #505
bjarneh wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The AI hype is finally over. At least partially over. It's one of those things though; when you first see what's possible with neural networks it does get your hopes up. When you later realize the limitations, it's hard to walk back your old claims. Even Elon Musk has to realize that FSD is never going to happen by now. Google with all their learning and training data, still can't correctly find and smudge license…

The Google Maps smudging point is an interesting one and definitely worth considering, but the incentives at play are very different. While I'm sure they want to be seen as making an effort, Google isn't rewarded in any way for achieving high accuracy in their smudging. It just has to be "good enough" to the point that they aren't getting in trouble for deliberately neglecting it. For this reason, I'd imagine the res…

> I'd imagine the resources they devote to it are quite limited

That's a problem inherent to AI or neural networks. We cannot spend our way out of these problems; they are underlying to the technology itself. Nobody knows what "doesn't work" when a neural network does something unexpected. AI is not a technology we have invented, it's a technology we've copied from nature. Nobody knows anything about what really goes on, this is why we're not getting anywhere.

Google could spend their entire budget on that smudge-bot, and it still wouldn't get any better using AI; they would have to go back to regular image analysis to make any improvements at this point. Google has trained it to be so good at finding faces; it started smudging faces on billboards/ads/shop-windows, but when these are flagged as errors, then it starts showing regular faces in shop windows un-smudged. The problem is that we have no idea of what's going on, so all we can do is to add new layers to the neural network, or give it more training data, neither of which gives an accurate result typically, making it impossible to use for self driving cars etc.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#529

Post by guytv »

dopamean wrote: post #288
mythz wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JetBrains IDE's is the most notable exception of dev tools I personally pay for, insane value and productivity makes it a no-brainer purchase given its instant ROI from time saved. Life's too short to not maximize your productivity for a few $'s.

JetBrains IDEs are the only dev tool I pay for as well. I write kotlin professionally and for fun and the Intellij + Kotlin experience is the most I've enjoyed writing code since my early days learning Ruby.

This is one point that worries me about Kotlin (which I like a lot). Is it even practical developing in Kotlin using something other than IntelliJ? All of its toolsets come from the same company, which could kill it one day.

Re: Kite is saying farewell and open-sourcing its code

#530

Post by terminal_d »

jollofricepeas wrote: post #276
LASR wrote: post #235

> Our diagnosis is that individual developers do not pay for tools. I know this first hand, building a developer tool startup and failing to reach any level of revenue. In the end, the tech was bought out by a larger company to recover a fraction of our VC investment. The challenge is that when you're building software for developers, they already know how it must work. It's like trying to sell magic tricks to magici…

Yep. Sublime Text. I sat through scores of interviews and pairing sessions with developers back when Sublime was a thing and the vast majority (>90%) of devs would rather exit out of that pop-up asking for support then pay the measly $30 or whatever regardless of their massive incomes and increased productivity that Sublime brought them. We developers are no more altruistic than anyone else regardless of the lies we…

I remember when people used to visit wikileaks for a Sublime Text license key.
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