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Kanye West is buying Parler

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Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#521

Post by Aloha »

sangnoir wrote: post #402
elteto wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint to your anonymity argument: we’ve learned in that past few years that people are very much OK with being publicly identified with hateful ideologies/ideas, e.g. MAGA supporters. A lot of them publicly post and participate online under their real identities, a lot of of it on Facebook. Anonymity is only a deterrent when you are the odd one out. When the President of the US is the one spouting the insanity…

> Anonymity is only a deterrent when you are the odd one out. When the President of the US is the one spouting the insanity you don't have to hide anymore. The problem with anonymous online echo-chambers is that it lulls those in the community that there are more of them in the real world than there really are, which emboldens people to take their online craziness into the real world. This goes for everything from po…

People also act differently when they're free from any risks of the behavior - and this holds true with money, social interactions, whatever.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#522

Post by Melatonic »

triceratops wrote: post #428
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tells me there's places of free speech on the internet but what is really wanted here is forced listening. Free speech on small fringe sites somehow doesn't count because it's not forced on people that don't want to see it. It's pretty clearly not a free speech issue at this point.

You've hit the nail on the head. All these "free speech absolutists" actually want "gratis reach" not "free speech".

Exactly. And they do not understand that with free speech does not come freedom from consequences.

There are plenty of places with free speech. You can walk outside and start saying some pretty insane stuff right now and people may hate you (consequence) but you are unlikely to have any type of legal consequence.

The social media one gets me the most because even if you do get rid of all moderation it is no secret that there is some algo out there amplifying some voices and not others. And in a way that is just censorship with extra steps.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#523

Post by npteljes »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #26

> In a world where conservative opinions are considered to be controversial In my opinion controversy and political incorrectness are Okay. I don't think people should be too concerned about hurting others' feelings when discussing objective phenomena or expressing their own opinion (as long as they acknowledge their subjectivity) . Nevertheless obvious (although not to everyone) absurd, blatant lies and manipulation…

>when discussing objective phenomena

This would be a good rule, but there's no objective, especially no objective phenomena.

So what remains is that we can strive to be truthful, while trying not to be hurtful. Assertive communication, I-messages (communicating one's own account, instead of putting the other in focus), studying fallacies and trying to avoid them, things like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-message

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#524

Post by yamtaddle »

godshatter wrote: post #250
mrtksn wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that requiring identity is anti free speech? Not everyone online is Iranian political dissident. Sure, some people claim that you can't have free speech when your identity is known but I don't see any solid reasoning behind it. Mike Masnick in his tweets repeats some talking points but there's no cohesive argument.

You never know where the prevailing winds of online sentiment will turn next. Having your every post tagged with your identity can lead to real-life problems in the future, even if it was something edgy you said as a teenager or something you used to believe but don't any longer.

> You never know where the prevailing winds of online sentiment will turn next. Having your every post tagged with your identity can lead to real-life problems in the future, even if it was something edgy you said as a teenager or something you used to believe but don't any longer.

So maybe, for every single thought one has, one ought not fly around the world and post it on a flyer on every street corner and light post. Which is basically what posting on Twitter is.

But then I think a ton of stuff people casually do online is batshit crazy when you put it in real-world terms. Of course you wouldn't do the above. You wouldn't even do it if you had a magic button that could make it happen for you without taking time & money to go do it in person. "Post my random toilet thought on hundreds of millions of surfaces all over the world? No, god, why would I do that?"

Would you give a teenager access to such a magic button? Of course not. That would be entirely insane. Even if using the button would not, per se, get them in trouble, you'd destroy that thing or put it in a safe. Handing it over to them to do with as they please wouldn't even be something you'd consider doing.

But we live in a world where ~every developed-world kid has a button like that by age 12, and sometimes much earlier. WT actual F. Of course it's causing tons of problems. Most adults couldn't be trusted to make good choices with such a tool (clearly).

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#525

Post by UncleMeat »

mrtksn wrote: post #460
UncleMeat wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see any value in spending my time judging content saying that trans people are degenerates or that black people are an inferior race. I’ve already judged those ideas in my life and don’t need to see them anymore.

Well you can judge people that say those things as people who don't deserve your respect and attention. Then don't hang around places that interact with those people, that's how we do it in real life.

In an online world with no moderation it is impossible to not hang around places with these people. They can just show up unannounced to spew hate speech wherever they want.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#526

Post by thomastjeffery »

mariodiana wrote: post #477
AlwaysRock wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad because to become successful Kanye had to ignore hundreds/thousands of important people telling him he wasnt good enough and he would never make it as a rapper. Then he became, arguably, the most popular rapper/hip hop artist of all time. Now image you've done what seems impossible despite countless people telling you it wont work out. You are in the top 1% of fame. Now someone tells you your other ideas are…

Kanye makes me think of someone I knew. I knew a young woman once whose conversation was impossible to follow. She was a college graduate, and seemed intelligent. But, I think either her mind wandered, or else she simply lacked the capacity to reliably establish context in conversation. I assure you, I really tried to make sense of what she was saying to me. She was beautiful, and I was interested in her. (I say this…

Intellect isn't a single axis. People can be very skilled at understanding the details while being totally blind to the bigger picture.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#527

Post by knownastron »

qq66 wrote: post #461
spywaregorilla wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who doesn't listen to much rap / hip hop, and can only name his cover (adaptation?) of Stronger, I do know who Kanye is. I don't know anything about his music. Mostly I just know of him because he's a very public asshole. Much like his wife. I find it basically impossible to empathize with him. I just wouldn't ever be in that situation. "Rising against adversity" is not the story I'd be be using here so mu…

> Mostly I just know of him because he's a very public asshole. Much like his wife. By "his wife" do you mean his ex-wife Kim Kardashian? If so, in what ways is she an asshole?

I agree. Kim has her faults but I don't recall a time when she has been an asshole to anyone.

I think this shows that the commenter is biased and doesn't have the full picture.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#528

Post by asdff »

chatterhead wrote: post #193
jleyank wrote: post #95

Can't make private individuals or companies host your speech. Can't make people listen to your speech. There's no protection against civil (ie, non governmental) action against your speech. You want freedom, host it your self and be prepared to accept the consequences and gains. Go to Speakers Corner and have a go. Put up a website. Buy a TV/Radio station, or Internet provider.

Until you get DOS'd to death.

Or you can do it the old fashion way. When I was in undergrad, anti abortion people showing graphic imagery and religious fanatics would use the fact that the main quad was a public space to stump their opinions. Most people would ignore them, others would stop to argue with them, but the cops never did anything because legally they could not remove them from a public space for speaking.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#529

Post by giraffe_lady »

monopoliessuck wrote: post #497

There's a really concerning trend on HN and elsewhere I'm seeing. Everyone now seems to think free speech is too dangerous to try and promote anymore. It's been a shift over a couple years. I'm not supporting Ye or any of his bullshit, but some of the comments on here are really chillingly authoritarian. Parler isn't going to be able to maintain "free speech" even if they or Kanye want it to, which I seriously doubt…

The idea that it's important to have a mainstream and consequence-free venue for all forms of speech may be your belief but it is not mine.

My belief is that public forums with reach into the tens or hundreds of millions are fertile ground for nationalist and genocidal movements, and they will be used for that purpose if it is not actively prevented.

Moderation of wide-reach public forums with the goal of preventing movements causing mass death and misery is perfectly consistent with my own beliefs about the value, conditions, and limits of free speech. You might believe differently, even oppose these beliefs, but the idea that the only correct stance is yours and all moral, rational people will converge on it is ridiculous.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#530

Post by madeofpalk »

mrtksn wrote: post #460
UncleMeat wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see any value in spending my time judging content saying that trans people are degenerates or that black people are an inferior race. I’ve already judged those ideas in my life and don’t need to see them anymore.

Well you can judge people that say those things as people who don't deserve your respect and attention. Then don't hang around places that interact with those people, that's how we do it in real life.

> Then don't hang around places that interact with those people

We've just come full circle to why twitter choses to moderate. They don't want to keep up content that drives people away.

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