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Nobody wants to teach anymore

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Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#521

Post by Iwan-Zotow »

tppiotrowski wrote: post #512

"Every single teacher I know has a second or third source of income, even professors. They’re either married to a banker, or they work a conventional second job. They have side hustles." My anecdote: My sister is a professor and my partner a 3rd grade teacher. Neither ever worked summer jobs but it sounds like they're outliers. I will say that having a classroom full of kids whose parents want to apply their individu…

> My sister is a professor. Neither ever worked summer jobs

Mmm... Not even summer semester?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#522

Post by closewith »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #500
jedberg wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the engineer who thinks everything can be solved with software. To automate grading you first must create a general AI, because if you just do multiple choice exams, you aren't really testing or measuring someone's ability to perform the task, you're just measuring their ability to make a good guess. And some teachers do that. But not the good ones. As for planning, some senior teachers have filing cabinets label…

> Ah, the engineer who thinks everything can be solved with software. Just as a bit of feedback, starting your comment like this may have turned off the original poster to the rest of your thoughts, which I agree with.

Maybe it will cause the OP to reevaluate whatever absurd worldview led them to posting a ridiculous comment?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#523

Post by jedberg »

tppiotrowski wrote: post #512

"Every single teacher I know has a second or third source of income, even professors. They’re either married to a banker, or they work a conventional second job. They have side hustles." My anecdote: My sister is a professor and my partner a 3rd grade teacher. Neither ever worked summer jobs but it sounds like they're outliers. I will say that having a classroom full of kids whose parents want to apply their individu…

Do you and your partner live together? Do you pay some their rent, or food, or for travel? You're basically their subsidy. Nothing wrong with that, but just pointing it out, that maybe they don't need a second job because they have you.

And are you sure your sister doesn't have a side hustle? Writing books? Tutoring? Expert witness? Consulting? Professors get a lot of opportunity for short term work, and many have to take it.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#524

Post by mjevans »

supertofu wrote: post #313
_vdpp wrote: post #98

A few random thoughts: 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated s…

Regarding 4: Not every kid should be going to high school. They and/or their families are not capable of supporting them through it. We need public vocational and alternative high schools.

A good time for 'think of the children' rather than their parents. Maybe combined with better access to free contraception so that every child is a desired child. If the environment isn't good for the child change that child's environment (family). Yes, those systems probably also need more love.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#525

Post by int0x2e »

bergenty wrote: post #504
tristor wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Administrators. We have insane administrative bloat, especially in higher ed. In some institutions there is nearly a 1:1 count of administrators to faculty. Ironically, given the social politics implied by the author, a significant amount of administration bloat is specifically tied to DEI. 2. Well, they are. A teaching certification used to only require two years of higher learning compared to typical 4 for other…

Special Ed is as stupid as doing open heart surgeries on 85 year olds to give them 3 extra years. They’re an enormous burden on the system and are ruining everything for almost all of us. Why do severely mentally handicapped kids even need to be educated. Just provide them with an amount of money to live their lives and make their time here as happy as possible. There is going to be a reckoning.

I suspect you haven't met too many people in these programs. I had a student in one of my university programs who was handicapped and could barely see 3ft in front of him. Guy had to ride in a motorized chair, get guided around campus, and use a super-zoom lens and a laptop screen that made everything 10x-50x its size to be able to read the whiteboard/presentations. I'm sure none of that stuff was cheap.

But that guy was awesome, fun, and super clever. His lowest score was an A-, and he had a great character. I'm sure he had to work ten times harder than I ever did just to get into that position, but I never heard him complain. Personally, I think keeping a mind as great as his in some sort of hedonic trance instead of letting him learn and contribute would have been a great loss, and possibly quite cruel.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#526

Post by jedberg »

zdragnar wrote: post #520
jedberg wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without ever having to work again by the age of 50. While that may be true, it's important to note that the pension is only salary (and usually only 80% of your terminal salary) and not benefits. So you'd spend a significant part of that money on getting health insurance. Most teachers who have earned full pensions wait to retire until 67 anyway so they can get Medicare (and not Social Security, because they don't…

Unless you're married and your partner continues to work and covers benefits for you. My aunt did exactly above, and felt it was a moral duty to let new younger teachers have the spot (nevermind it meant that she was going to draw a pension from the system for more years than she'd actually worked). Plenty of other teachers feel the same way, though obviously not all.

Sure, if you're married and have a second income, then that second income is basically subsidizing education. My wife was a teacher and retired when our kid was born, because we could. Some time in her 50s she'll be able to draw her pension.

But basically the only reason we can afford to live in the Silicon Valley is because I'm an engineer with a decent salary. A lot of her paycheck went right back into her classroom, and with the hours she worked, she was basically make $3/hr, despite getting some of the highest teacher pay in the country.

And all of her coworkers were in the same boat -- almost every one of them, even the senior teachers, were married to engineers. The few that weren't either had family money or at least had parents who bought them a condo or house. Or a good friend. We let one of her young teacher friends live with us for a couple years until she managed to save up enough for a down payment on a small condo, and then got married and got a second job.

It is basically impossible to be a teacher in Silicon Valley without a highly paid spouse or multiple side hustles.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#527

Post by dionidium »

jedberg wrote: post #495
douglaswlance wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need to plan/grade ? Why isn't that automated?

Ah, the engineer who thinks everything can be solved with software. To automate grading you first must create a general AI, because if you just do multiple choice exams, you aren't really testing or measuring someone's ability to perform the task, you're just measuring their ability to make a good guess. And some teachers do that. But not the good ones. As for planning, some senior teachers have filing cabinets label…

> But any good teacher will realize that they have to customize the learning to that year's kids, and constantly update with new teaching methodologies, new information, etc.

I mean this seriously: why? High school math is not a rapidly changing field. Sure, you might have to slow down or speed up, depending on the class -- although, is even that true? Is the average student really changing all that much from year to year? -- but that means taking out the file for day 82 on day 87 or whatever. That's not a massive adjustment.

The material is unchanging. The students aren't going to be all that different from year to year. What's going on that it seems like common sense to so many people that teaching high school math requires a bunch of novel planning?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#528

Post by juve1996 »

dionidium wrote: post #527
jedberg wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the engineer who thinks everything can be solved with software. To automate grading you first must create a general AI, because if you just do multiple choice exams, you aren't really testing or measuring someone's ability to perform the task, you're just measuring their ability to make a good guess. And some teachers do that. But not the good ones. As for planning, some senior teachers have filing cabinets label…

> But any good teacher will realize that they have to customize the learning to that year's kids, and constantly update with new teaching methodologies, new information, etc. I mean this seriously: why? High school math is not a rapidly changing field. Sure, you might have to slow down or speed up, depending on the class -- although, is even that true? Is the average student really changing all that much from year to…

The material may stay the same but the reason why a child may not understand it will vary.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#529

Post by spoils19 »

notch656a wrote: post #517
varjag wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The society used to care a lot less about special needs people.

There's a finite amount of tax money available, so disproportionately allotment to a few special children effectively robs the other children of resources.

Agreed. We also have to consider the comparative ROI.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#530

Post by varjag »

notch656a wrote: post #517
varjag wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The society used to care a lot less about special needs people.

There's a finite amount of tax money available, so disproportionately allotment to a few special children effectively robs the other children of resources.

It's not just the money. The attitude to special needs children (and disabilities in general) was a lot worse.
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