Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#521

Post by smoldesu » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

philistine wrote: post #500

smoldesu wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7nm is considerably less dense than 5nm, since it's increased size compounds across two dimensions. That being said, A13 was indeed on 7nm, as well as the A14x they put in the dev kit. I don't think those benchmark numbers would be competitive against 3D Cache Ryzen or current Alder Lake offerings. Furthermore, I question how far Apple will be able to push Apple Silicon. As we've seen with the M2, when Apple can't ge…

You have in no shape or form supported your claim that Apple gained 200% in performance per watt due solely to the 5nm process.

Here, then:

Developer transition kit, running A12z, 7nm:

https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?q=eperm-d995af6e...

Last-gen Mac Mini, running i7-8700B, 14nm:

https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/mac-mini-late-2018

So, let's do some quick math. Assuming the A12z runs in the same power envelope as the M1, it uses roughly half the power of the preceding Intel chip. That makes sense, since both the performance and efficiency cores are using a much denser process. Generously speaking, both of these chips have a similar performance profile, which leads me to believe that Apple's real 'boon' here was simply switching to a denser node. Comparing IPC across ISAs is largely guesswork, but I'm not convinced that AMD or Intel are incapable of manufacturing 5nm chips that decimate Apple's offerings. Apple hasn't allowed it to happen, so we can't say for sure.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#522

Post by nsonha » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

philliphaydon wrote: post #515

nsonha wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taiwan has been an ally of the US long before the CCP was created. I guess except for when the US sold the UN seat to China because it’s convenient to them at the time?

The US voted against switching from ROC to PRC. Soooo no?

I stand corrected, will check my fact more carefully next time.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#523

Post by adampk » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:11 PM UTC

siegfried-en wrote: post #473

mrjin wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice list. Just a side question though, do you know where Xinjiang is on the map since you are so concerned about Uyghurs? I thought I knew where Xinjiang was until CNN told me it was in Guangdong province. https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/pjsyyv/cnn_once_chang...

Has Chinese propaganda made it to hacker news?

yes

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#524

Post by alephnerd » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #323

alephnerd wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, median income [0] and HDI [1] both at the macro level and at the prefecture level are comparable to Brazil [2][3] and lag behind both Russia [4][5] and Mexico [6][7]. There is no denying the amount of growth the service sector in China has seen, yet a lot of this growth and development is among a sliver of the population living in better developed regions such as the various coastal prefectures. Beijing, Tianjin…

>This middle income trap is not a good thing by the way One of OG researchers who coined the term believe phenonmenon is overstated, to the point of not being useful or existing at all. Fundementally, middle income trap is not a good concept in evaluating PRC because even according to the original middle income analysis countries with proper industrial policies designed to move up value chain (like PRC) is likely con…

What you have described is BY DEFINTION the middle income trap. Economic growth and development is not linear - the type of strategy that brought incomes up from $400 to $2000 a year are not going to be the same to bring them up from $2000 to $10000.

The kind of regional income transfers you mentioned is a MASSIVE legal undertaking that will inevitabely face a significant amount of opposition from the richer coastal prefectures that would be subsidizing said development. You would need a revamping of tax brackets and also, you would still need to work on getting education quality in hinterland regions up to speed. We all want to say China is doing it's own thing for the first time, but this is the exact same story we saw with Malaysia and Mexico in the 90s and Turkey/Russia/Brazil in the 2000s-2010s. And it's not like economists and policymakers in the PRC are blind to this - Shaojie Zhou and Angang Hu at Tsinghua are two econometricians I can think of off the top of my head who are doing reseach on this conundrum specifically while also still in China. Li Keqiang himself is a former developmental economist btw and I wouldn't be surprised if a number of the recentish reforms that have started happening were lobbied by him.

Paraphrase from previous comment:

Countries can have cutting edge industries AND still lag behind in development - Brazil (Defense, Aerospace, ONG, Automotive), South Africa (Defense), Turkey (Defense, Automotive, ONG), Mexico (Defense, Automotive, ONG), Russia (ONG, Defense, Aerospace, Automotive), Malaysia (Automotive, ONG, Electronics), etc are all countries that are major innovators and even leaders in STEM/innovtion heavy industries, yet still have significant issues with spreading development across their countries. The PRC is facing a similar issue, and it is a hard nut to crack - I can't think of a single middle income to upper income economy that didn't also

1. receive a massive subsidy from either the EU (southern Europe, eastern Europe, Ireland) or the US (South Korea, Israel, Taiwan)

2. have a small population (It is harder to lift a nation of 400 million poor (using PRC poverty definition) people than to lift a poor nation of 30-40 million.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#525

Post by aNoob7000 » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:14 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #513

aNoob7000 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take the United States versus China any day of the week. People keep making China out like they some kind of benevolent dictator. Keep in mind that all the shit talking everyone does on Hacker News and other sites is a no go in China. Ask Jack Ma about how well things go when you go against the China's CCP.

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#526

Post by tomxor » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #358

tomxor wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 99% chance the people complaining about labor conditions are doing so on a made in China phone. 99% of everyone has a phone made in China, does this mean it's not possible to complain about the state of the world we live in?

Not while you are literally voting with your dollars to preserve that status quo.

It's not a vote if there is practically only one option.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#527

Post by bovermyer » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #511

bovermyer wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my other comments regarding US vs China in this context.

Tell that to the countries where US wages war on.

You're still missing the point.

This discussion is _not about the United States._ This discussion is about _China._

Let me give you a helpful link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#528

Post by pauldenton » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:25 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #513

aNoob7000 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take the United States versus China any day of the week. People keep making China out like they some kind of benevolent dictator. Keep in mind that all the shit talking everyone does on Hacker News and other sites is a no go in China. Ask Jack Ma about how well things go when you go against the China's CCP.

Quoted post unavailable.

The ones who are now stuck in Chinese Debt Traps

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#529

Post by pauldenton » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

aydnina wrote: post #497

bovermyer wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to that question could fill several books. Among more recent events are the human rights violations, the increasing saber-rattling about Taiwan, the increasing joint military exercises with Russia, and the mass addition of malware/spyware to chips meant for foreign markets. Rather than take my word for it, though, I encourage you to do some research on your own - preferably not entirely through Internet so…

The island of Taiwan is part of the People's Republic of China, and they will decide what to do with it and when. What Americans think, want or say is irrelevant.

Do you think the US base in Okinawa is also irrelevant

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#530

Post by stiltzkin » Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

mrjin wrote: post #471

yabatopia wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just ask the Taiwanese, Uyghurs and Tibetan people. To name a few.

Nice list. Just a side question though, do you know where Xinjiang is on the map since you are so concerned about Uyghurs? I thought I knew where Xinjiang was until CNN told me it was in Guangdong province. https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/pjsyyv/cnn_once_chang...

r/sino is a state Chinese propaganda sub.