GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#521

Post by tekknik » Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 2:05 PM UTC

sneed-oil wrote: post #518

tekknik wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can use cash for these cases. So no, still not a valid use case to allow for blatant money laundering.

If they don't know a dealer for the drugs they want they might decide to buy them online with cryptocurrency, and that's where a service like Tornado Cash is useful. Cash can be laundered too.

So teens buying drugs there parents don’t want them using. This is your use case for TornadoCash?

Cash cannot be so easily laundered as literally sending coins to an address and waiting a few minutes. Laundering cash requires physical infrastructure which can be tracked and monitored.

People like you are why crypto is dying. Not everybody needs to anonymously buy drugs online. When non-crypto bros here things like this they mark you and your project as criminal.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#522

Post by sneed-oil » Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 7:01 PM UTC

tekknik wrote: post #521

sneed-oil wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they don't know a dealer for the drugs they want they might decide to buy them online with cryptocurrency, and that's where a service like Tornado Cash is useful. Cash can be laundered too.

So teens buying drugs there parents don’t want them using. This is your use case for TornadoCash? Cash cannot be so easily laundered as literally sending coins to an address and waiting a few minutes. Laundering cash requires physical infrastructure which can be tracked and monitored. People like you are why crypto is dying. Not everybody needs to anonymously buy drugs online. When non-crypto bros here things like th…

Teenagers are not the only ones who might want to buy drugs online

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#523

Post by tragictrash » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:12 AM UTC

hattmall wrote: post #400

andrewjmyers wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm actually interested in these figures. Bitcoin alone is estimated to use 150 terawatt-hours of electricity annually. The US Department of Energy estimates that there are 80 million households with dishwashers in the US (although they believe 16m never use them, but we will ignore that). It appears that the average dishwasher uses 251kWh annually (at the avg of 215 cycles per year). So this would put the US annu…

518 million seems reasonable to low for the entire world and you are leaving out commercial places.

Remember, dishwashers are more efficient at using resources than washing them by hand.

Bitcoin just consumes extra energy, not makes an existing process more efficient.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#524

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 7:58 PM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #448

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters is notthe list of competitors, but instead the market share. I don't think anyone can say Nike has 20% of all US customers of shoes. But its almost certain that Github has > 20% of all US customers in software development. Here lies the point. In order to enforce antitrust, there should be a clear line that once crossed, you are deemed a common carrier or something to that effect. I think even as low as…

Nike has >30% of the revenues of the sports clothing industry. I guess Nike is a common carrier, they have to let me in their stores and the government must force them to sell their shoes at government regulated prices. If there's not a store near me, they must build one for me or offer me shipping at equal prices to everyone else. After all, they can't discriminate just because I'm far away from their closest distri…

i didnt say revenue for a reason, but even thwn i highly doubt nike sells 30% of all US shoes

Notice im talking about shoes, not sneakers. theres a ton of womens wear that probably is a significant share of the whole market, of which nike has exactly 0%

Lets make it simple so there is no misunderstanding. Any company ownning at least x % of a given NAICS or SIC code. There.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#525

Post by vel0city » Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #524

vel0city wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nike has >30% of the revenues of the sports clothing industry. I guess Nike is a common carrier, they have to let me in their stores and the government must force them to sell their shoes at government regulated prices. If there's not a store near me, they must build one for me or offer me shipping at equal prices to everyone else. After all, they can't discriminate just because I'm far away from their closest distri…

i didnt say revenue for a reason, but even thwn i highly doubt nike sells 30% of all US shoes Notice im talking about shoes, not sneakers. theres a ton of womens wear that probably is a significant share of the whole market, of which nike has exactly 0% Lets make it simple so there is no misunderstanding. Any company ownning at least x % of a given NAICS or SIC code. There.

So what are GitHub's NAICS or SIC codes? 7379 Computer Related Services? Think GitHub makes up 20% of all "Computer Related Services"? Does GitHub control 20% of 504500000 "Computers, peripherals, and software"?

Also, expanding out to "all shoes" or all apparel is like making GitHub "all developer-focused Software-as-a-Service". Can I really use Prada Satin platform sandals with crystals in the same way as Nike React Infinity Run Flyknit 3's? No, their utility is very different and they're not really interchangeable. Can I use Sendgrid in the same capacity as I use GitHub? No, their utility is very different and they're not really interchangeable. You need a tighter market segment to point to, such as at least "sports clothing" or "fashion clothing" or "source-code management" or "external communications tools".

Even then, I'm not so sure GitHub definitely has 20% or more of that whole market. It definitely has deep penetration in some parts of the market and it wouldn't surprise me if it does have 20% or more, but I wouldn't just necessarily just assume that. Do you have any information to share on actual marketshare? I don't and I did briefly look for it.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#526

Post by chrischattin » Sat, Aug 20, 2022, 12:42 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #131

whatisweb3 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be argued the sole intent of unleashing a virus on the internet is malicious. The sole intent of publishing a privacy protocol on GitHub is not. Look at Tor for comparison. GitHub has a section on this[1]. There should be no problem with allowing this software online for research and educational purposes. [1] https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/acceptable-use-polici...

Does anyone want to dispute that Tornado Cash is a money laundering tool? When at least 20% of the money that has moved through it is already known to be ill-gotten gains, with the rest being indeterminant, it's kind of hard to say it's a anything but a money laundering tool. I've only seen childish arguments that "money laundering is a fake crime", not that Tornado Cash isn't a money laundering tool.

I will dispute that. It's a privacy tool. Just because you don't want the world to know what you spent your money on, doesn't mean you are doing anything illegal.