Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#521

Post by b20000 » Wed, May 11, 2022, 8:40 PM UTC

s5300 wrote: post #185

b20000 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

entry level jobs in software engineering at FAANG were over 120K about 10 years ago and that was already underpaid. California is a really expensive place to live long term and people generally do not do the math and do not account for child care, retirement, sickness or health issues or whatever. then there is the cost of (ongoing) education and issues of mental health in this industry. And those who think remote wi…

As somebody who looked into doing the highest echelons of Uber/Lyft in the most expensive parts of California - I do believe your driver was lying to you about $20k/mo. Would be glad to be proven wrong, but I’ve looked pretty deeply into it.

this is not uberX but uber black or SUV. i think he is doing a lot of airport trips which are going to be at least $50 without tips. but you are right, i have no way of verifying what he said.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#522

Post by maccard » Wed, May 11, 2022, 8:43 PM UTC

happymellon wrote: post #486

zeku wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mainly military budget if you google it. A common American complaint is "subsidizing" European defense off of our tax dollars. America is also a big spread out place so maintaining it is more expensive than small Euro countries. On my first point, I think we get a rather strategic advantage from being the "Western" police. However I'm just explaining a common critique you'll hear.

California pays for NATO? Other states might end up having similar tax rates, i was just curious what made Californias so high. If that is mostly federal income tax then never mind!

I've no idea what the breakdown of federal vs state tax is sorry, and I actually don't even know how to find out. I'm just a european engineer that has genuinely looked into moving and picked california as a point of reference purely due to the high salaries and QOL factors.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#523

Post by jjav » Wed, May 11, 2022, 8:49 PM UTC

indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

> Why do tech workers feel underpaid?

I'll throw in a different angle. If I'm truly happy at a job, pay isn't a big concern as long as I can pay the bills. The more miserable the job becomes, the more the money becomes the only way to tolerate it so it better keep getting higher.

Pay in software roles might be at an all-time high today, but respect and independence is at an all-time low.

In the 90s I had a private office with a door and a window. Today we're packed like sardines into an open office (although thanks to the pandemic this part improved).

In the 90s I worked on deep hardcode tech, today nearly every company just wants to glue libraries to frameworks and connect AWS bits together. Work is no longer intellectually satisfying.

In the 90s tech companies produced tech, that was the product, so it was exciting and hip. Today so-called "tech companies" produce advertising, shopping, social spyware, movies. It's not tech anymore. Boring.

In the 90s, senior engineers drove engineering decisions. Today we have non-technical product managers forcing their way into technical decisions.

In the 90s we were trusted to get things done and allowed the time to get deep in the zone. Today it's forced daily status reports, "agile".

In the 90s we could plan ahead and go deep, research and build well-architected solutions. Today the task better take no more than 1-2 days so the story gets closed, "agile".

I could go on and on but will stop. If software engineering today had the working conditions and respect it had in the 90s, I'd happily do it for 25% of my current salary and be so happy.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#524

Post by mateo411 » Wed, May 11, 2022, 8:50 PM UTC

bastardoperator wrote: post #452

ryandrake wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

To be honest, I used to think developers in tech did well, then I worked with some really good sales people in tech and realized they're making WAY more on top free vacations and spiff (even more money) opportunities. It's night and day. We've heard about developers making upwards of 500K, I've seen sales people make triple on a single deal with similar deals lined up for following quarters. It is insane, and most de…

There is a little more variance in sales people's earnings, since it's based on commission. Their base salary is probably pretty paltry. To do a proper comparison you want to look at OTE(on target earnings), that's how much they earn if they hit their numbers.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#525

Post by pyuser583 » Wed, May 11, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

lhorie wrote: post #448

scarface74 wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your employee is private, it is silly to count non liquid statistically meaningless “equity” as part of your compensation. “compensation” is something I can trade for cash once I have earned it and then exchange for good and services.

Paper equity for late stage startups can be traded for cash in secondary markets like EquityZen

Only if the company allows it. Many don’t.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#526

Post by pyuser583 » Wed, May 11, 2022, 8:57 PM UTC

buscoquadnary wrote: post #336

ryandrake wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

This is something I don't think gets discussed enough. In my first 10 years of career I basically doubled my salary, by moving every 2-3 years, but I also now know I am pretty much hitting a plateau, anytime I talk with recruiters and talk about the salary I'd like to move which is about 10-20% (which is pretty reasonable given the benefits I got now) then people express reservations. Some people will end up making 2…

It becomes increasingly stock heavy, and for good reason. Taxes become a huge thing.

If you can get the income as long term capital gains, you get to keep a lot more.

At the same time, money is money, and stock isn’t money.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#527

Post by pyuser583 » Wed, May 11, 2022, 8:59 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #199

indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

This is what makes me feel underpaid. I see how much value I’m adding. I get a tiny, tiny fraction.

I didn’t become a Marxist until I hit six figures, but dang it I want the wealth produced by my labor!

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#528

Post by artful-hacker » Wed, May 11, 2022, 9:03 PM UTC

sircastor wrote: post #330

dasil003 wrote: post #288

It's subtle, but the headline feels a bit like low-key class warfare clickbait. No one feels underpaid because their salary is six figures, it's because of what they're paid relative to their peers and workload. The article actually covers this decently well, but the headlines makes it sound like techies are a bunch of entitled brats.

This is important. I feel it's especially true of folks outside of the Bay area, who hear of 400-600K compensation packages and wonder why they're being paid "so poorly" A personal anecdote: A (very much) junior colleague decided to move jobs and when I asked them they told me their new salary - $15k more than I was making (and I had 15 years of experience on them). This person is totally competent and I was delighte…

A personal anecdote: as soon as companies starting paying these salaries to remote workers, I found myself a company willing to pay me for my experience. Now I get to reap the benefits of lower cost of living, higher quality of life, and higher pay. I don't know how long this gravy train will last, but I suggest anyone with the experience to hop on get their ticket immediately.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#529

Post by RussianCow » Wed, May 11, 2022, 9:04 PM UTC

kilroy123 wrote: post #113

uejfiweun wrote: post #23

Working in tech is not exactly easy, even if you love computers. You have to move to some awfully expensive part of the country and interact with some extremely thin skinned people all day, and spend hours upon hours examining minute details of systems supporting systems supporting systems that you never even knew existed.

Plus it's very competitive. You can't just sit around and rest on one's laurels. You have to constantly be learning and god help you when you need to interview and land a new job.

It depends. I've met a few engineers who coast by on their experience and seniority, likely putting in less than 10 hours per week of actual work. They don't make top dollar, but are still paid handsomely by most measures. Of course, they had to prove themselves first to earn the privilege.

I don't want to generalize (anecdata and all that), but it seems like this would be pretty easy to do at many big (non-FAANG) companies.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#530

Post by lmeyerov » Wed, May 11, 2022, 9:27 PM UTC

weatherlite wrote: post #338

lmeyerov wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Useful to think through the numbers. Few American dr's make $1M. Most of those that make many multiples more than nurses are specialists, and they are still much less than $1M. I do know ones that do better... Because they are involved in effectively second jobs around biotech startups, maybe clinical trials, vs the actual patient care. I've been curious on celebrity patients (who seem to be more about donations/endo…

I am not really comparing whose situation is better but since you brought it up: Doctors in general earn more but work much much harder. They also have much much better job security, it is unheard of for a doctor to be considered obsolete at his 50s. I wouldn't want the life of a doctor personally but financially it is the better field imo, on average.

Maybe put differently: You can be 9-5 FAANG type and retire as early as 40. In contrast, due to the delayed paycheck for specialists... they're looking at another 10 years after that. Likewise, at FAANG, you're living large as a 20-something, while specialists are running on debt & tiny stipends while going through crazy stress: you don't get to enjoy that paycheck while in your prime. There are always outliers, but with 500K+ well-paid folks just in FAANG, and probably 1M+ when other high paying are included, there's a reason even medical folks are getting squeezed out of the bay area.