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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

nysenate.gov

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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#521

Post by OrvalWintermute »

jorblumesea wrote: post #499
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most Americans have never experienced a system like that, and will fight tooth and nail against things they don't understand or have experienced. They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled. My wife, a practicing physician, did fellowships in multiple countries like this. I asked her for…

The US also has terrible waiting periods for elective care as well. I've talked to many physicians in the US (wife is MD) and you're booking way out anyways. So...universal healthcare has wait times of 7 months instead of 5 months. It's just weird how people argue for the US system as if it's superior but it really has the same problems as other countries with even more downsides. If we're supposed to be "good" at el…

Many socialized systems have wait times of years, not months for elective, and non-emergent surgeries.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#522

Post by wolverine876 »

simulate-me wrote: post #464
wolverine876 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know those people and of course can't judge anyone else but me. Generally, the trendy focus on taxes is absurdity. They are making all that money, and are uprooting their lives and family, not to mention the other benefits of living in world cultural and technology capital (which isn't coincidental to the taxes and resulting community investment), to save on taxes? I hope they see that some things are more im…

Seattle and Austin are totally comparable, even preferable, to NYC and SF in many ways. So yes, all else equal, why not save an extra 10% of your income?

> Seattle and Austin are totally comparable, even preferable, to NYC and SF in many ways.

I'm sure we can find ways, Seattle and Austin are wonderful places, and what makes NYC and SF special doesn't appeal to everyone. But really Seattle and Austin are not even close. There's a reason NYC and SF have been centers of culture and business for generations; there's a reason that demand is so high that housing costs are stratospheric.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#524

Post by Krasnol »

nybble41 wrote: post #323
Krasnol wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kinda is voluntary. If you don't like it, you can leave the country which wants you to pay. I don't get why you have a problem with that. It sounds to me like some anti-social behaviour pattern. Don't you pay for taxes or Government services too? This is how a civilized society works. The attitude you display here has become a bad joke when people talk about the US health system. You must be aware of that. What do…

> It kinda is voluntary. If you don't like it, you can leave the country which wants you to pay. Voluntary would be staying where you are and still not being forced to pay. When a mugger presents their victim with a choice like "your money or your life" they're not paying voluntarily just because there was another option. You don't have the right to evict people from their homes any more than you have the right to ta…

The funny thing here is that your obviously anti-social behaviour only works in a society where being anti-social has been normalized. You'd be dead in a social society because as a lone, greedy individual, you're weaker than a group where the strong care for the weak.

But even you must be aware that your model is coming to an end. The anti-social aspects of it have become a topic. Something which hasn't been the case in the past decades because the downsides of this model became so obvious.

You are part of a finally dying thought system and the parts you didn't answer to speak for themselves.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#525

Post by ngcc_hk »

The original Obamacare came from the republican state experiment (the guy also went up to compete as potus as well). Experiment is good. But can you accommodate difference on lower level, so it is not one size fit it all.

Having said that by and large USA as a whole is a experiment of non-single payer.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#526

Post by ryan_lane »

listless wrote: post #164
countvonbalzac wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent is not tax, what an absurd comment.

I’m a landlord and yes it is. My taxes doubled last year because of the stupid housing bubble and so we had to raise rent as well. Gotta make a profit here for this investment to be worthwhile.

Sell your building. Your taxes went up because your property value went up. You aren't entitled to a profit on rent. If you sell your building below what it's valued at, you'll still make a hefty profit, and it'll cause the value of other buildings to lower.

Land owners seem to feel entitled to businesses with no risk. Costs are always passed down, even if it makes people homeless. I'm more than happy with you going out of business if an event that makes you richer isn't an event that you can handle in terms of cost.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#527

Post by refurb »

colinmhayes wrote: post #471
refurb wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just interestingly - the average per capita cost of Canada’s system is $4,000. Of course in the US, there are costs beyond just insurance, but if you had to pay for coverage out of pocket it would be $16,000/yr for a family of 4.

Well the point is that you don’t have to worry about coming up with 20k if you leave your job in Canada.

Of course, but it puts the cost in perspective a bit if you did have to pay it out of pocket.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#528

Post by native_samples »

jorblumesea wrote: post #481
manuelabeledo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from a country with universal healthcare too, and my experience is the opposite. Yes, to this day, it doesn’t cover dental or vision, which is BS if you ask me, and there is some co-pay for certain prescriptions; regardless, it is a fantastic system, and I miss it so much every time I need to go to the doctor here in the US. The main reason is uncertainty: in the US, I can never know how much something is goin…

Most Americans have never experienced a system like that, and will fight tooth and nail against things they don't understand or have experienced. They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled. Of course coming from any other country, this is ridiculous. But it goes to show you how out of to…

"They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled"

The "billionaires" aren't lying to you. Look at the UK, a maximalist interpretation of universal government funded healthcare.

Lockdowns destroyed the NHS. The waiting list for care (not even just elective care, any care) is now closing in on 10% of the entire population!

https://dailysceptic.org/2022/04/15/lockdown-backlog-nhs-wai...

People are waiting hours for ambulances to turn up after heart attacks! People are dying inside ambulances sitting in queues to enter the hospital. My family has largely given up on seeing local general practitioners because so many have reduced hours during lockdowns and never brought them back, meaning they're working less with bigger demand due to backlogs. The system has indeed removed their ability to get appointments scheduled.

These are third world conditions, or perhaps more accurately, second world conditions - nobody has to pay but there are severe shortages all the time, and what you get may or may not be of acceptable quality. The USA doesn't have these problems. Heck, most places that aren't fully government run don't have these problems.

The problems are cutting through. My aunt, a lifetime public sector worker loyal to the NHS, was talking about getting private care last time we talked. It was a surprise but she said her experience was you just can't see doctors without it anymore. The net result is going to be a very expensive healthcare system for the UK - high taxes to pay for the NHS plus an ever larger shadow system of private healthcare on the side.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#529

Post by ryan_lane »

chrisseaton wrote: post #307
rootusrootus wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reality is it's pretty grim. Don't know if I'd recommend it to other countries to be honest. As someone who's never experienced the UK health care system, and only know one person who has (as a foreigner, so they paid out of pocket and said the experience was positive, but otherwise not a good data point) ... I'd like to hear a bit more detail about how it's pretty grim, if you're willing to elaborate.

I'd love to get you to listen in to a phone call where I try to get an appointment with my doctor. You'd have to be up at 0800 on the dot, while I desperately try to get into the phone queue. Then you'll hear me beg with the world's rudest receptionist for an appointment, which I won't get. There's no incentive for these people to be helpful or polite, because they get paid anyway and there's no market, so they aren'…

Most Americans can't afford to go to the doctor for their yearly checkup, and most don't. A large percentage of the country doesn't have insurance.

Also, I'm actually not sure that a yearly physical in the US does much for cancer screenings. The last one I had in the US did blood tests for cholesterol, urine tests for kidney disease, and some other common tests, but I don't remember getting screened for forms of cancer. I think this is dependent on the healthcare provider you go to, and what your insurance covers.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#530

Post by barry-cotter »

IX-103 wrote: post #410
rabuse wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If government reduced their hold on zoning restrictions and allowed for more properties to be built, we wouldn't be in this mess. Supply and demand.

I'm not sure of your logic. There's no guarantee that builders will use the loosened restrictions to build the most efficient housing. In fact they will most likely build the most profitable housing instead. The most profitable is on the high end - so marble countertops, stainless steel appliances, etc. All the builders will race to build as much of that as they can, as fast as they can. Then, when the market is glut…

> Then, when the market is glutted, they'll be unable to sell off their investments. Builders will end up with their capital all sunk in cheap land and expensive housing. no one can afford to buy. The builders can't sell the cheap land since they leveraged it to pay for developing the expensive housing. They can't sell the expensive housing because the market has temporarily dried up. The builders will just wait until the glut resolves and continue business as usual.

If there’s a glut in the market prices fall. If you have invested a lot of money in something in the hopes of selling it at a profit and you can’t you go out of business and your assets are sold. So if you over leverage and prices fall you go out of business and lose all your assets and the bank may lose some of its assets. Housing supply increases though. In a market where there’s excess demand at current price points (rising prices) that’s good.

Capitalism doesn’t make ever increasing housing prices, zoning does.

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