Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money • Hacker News Board

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#521

Post by asdff » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:48 PM UTC

ascar wrote: post #74

CoastalCoder wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from differences in cost, do you find anything about a straight razor compellingly better than e.g. a Gillette Mach 3? I go through Mach 3 cartridges pretty slowly, so price isn't a big concern. And I don't notice anything deficient about the quality of my shaves. But one thing I really like about safety razors is that there's zero risk of serious injury.

Safety razors are much better at making a neckline, if you only shave clean partially and trim the remaining beard. Personally I also get less skin irritation from the safety razor compared to the Mach3 I used before. Given I use it correctly. If you move "against" the hair instead of "with" the hair it caused a lot of irritation for me. But that was essentially user error. In total I would never go back to a Mach3.…

the skinguard they have is great now. its basically a modernized mach3. super smooth and you can get away using it when its old and dull without being cut as much as the old mach3s, and it has a single blade on the back for edging.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#522

Post by mirker » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:48 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #502

mirker wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For coffee: French press + grinder is straightforward and has little maintenance. Machines have to be descaled.

That's still much more work than a pod machine. With a pod machine you just pop a pod in, put a cup under, press a button, come back 1 minute later and you're done. With your setup you have to pour out beans, wait for it to grind, start boiling water, wait for it to brew, and then clean everything up.

As another commenter said, if you don’t care for quality, you can get pre-ground. Then, you just boil water and brew, which is a few cups of coffee, so potentially less amortized work.

Cleanup is fair but it’s on the order of putting your hands in the grounds and throwing them in the trash. I suspect people think machines are easier because they don’t mind mold or scale building in their unclean tank.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#523

Post by achenet » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:48 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #427

tristor wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, claiming that they "seem to be poisonous" without any qualifiers is a little misleading. To my knowledge they're only poisonous during manufacturing (ie. the precursor chemicals) and when they get too hot. 1. The manufacturing process results in those precursor chemicals entering urban water supplies where they are nearly impossible to filter out (only RO is effective and it's not even 100% effective), and on…

>1. The manufacturing process results in those precursor chemicals entering urban water supplies where they are nearly impossible to filter out (only RO is effective and it's not even 100% effective), and once in the bloodstream of people are powerful endrocrine disruptors which circulate and are filtered slowly by the kidneys... and when peed out go right back into the water supply due to not being able to be remove…

> Sounds like a lot of work to me. In other words, the teflon pan is actually more convenient.

I'm probably being a little nitpicky/contrarian when I say this, but for my cooking style, teflon is actually more.

I cook with large amounts of fat (generally beef fat - tallow and/or suet) every meal, which on Teflon causes a nightmare of a mess to clean. With my cast iron pan, I just wipe off a bit of the excess and let the rest say in the pan, forming a non-stick coating. I've not cooked any eggs in a while, but I reckon (granted, possibly falsely, since I've not tested this) that I would fry one without any special precautions due the amount of grease I cook with in normal times.

So for some people, the cast iron cooking style is actually easier because there is less cleaning.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#524

Post by hombre_fatal » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:49 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #516

molszanski wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting. For me shaving with DE razor is miles ahead in comfort over cartridge

The thing is it takes skill and time to get there. Look at the reddit groups with everyone having some favorite brush or soap lather. The first few times you do it will probably go terribly too, maybe even ongoing. Meanwhile, 3 blade gillete can do an OK job with only a splash of water and a dozen strokes if you were in a true pinch. the skinguard is even better than old man mach 3. in a world where a pint of beer at…

I think people who buy DE/SE razors often just like to partake in the accessories because they're selected from people who care enough in the first place to move beyond the cartridge razor. You certainly don't need brushes and nice lathers to use a DE. No more than you need them with a cartridge razor.

I have sensitive skin and a fresh DE blade cuts better with just water than a cartridge razor because it's sharper.

But before I got a DE razor, as an outsider, I also assumed you needed to take shaving seriously and be an accessories guy to use one, and thankfully it's just not true.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#525

Post by conjecTech » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:49 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #308

motohagiography wrote: post #11

I've used a straight razor for almost 20 years. Vindicating to read that the price of a Dovo pays for itself. I think my bar of shaving soap is probably the better part of decade old as well. In the interim, a whole peculiar subculture around shaving has developed, but you don't have to be a part of it to just use a razor. Makes you unreachable by corporate marketing as well, which is itself its own reward.

Safety razor user chiming in. The only bad thing about it is that it makes flying with just a carry-on impossible. I still spend a not insignificant ~$250/yr on blades and shaving cream to shave face and head daily.

That number seems incredibly high to me. The most I've seen blades go for in any kind of volume is around $0.20/blade. Even if you were discarding them every day, that would only account for $70/year. You can admittedly buy some rather nice shave soap, but $180/year still seems aggressive.

I admittedly don't shave every day, but I've been using a safety razor since 2013. I went back and tallied up all of the purchases for materials, including my razor, and I believe I've spent a little over $200 for that entire period, so maybe $25/year.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#526

Post by mr_mitm » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

kareemsabri wrote: post #509

jader201 wrote: post #398

Why is a thread on electric razors not the top comment on a post about the expense/waste of straight razors? I get that they have some downsides, but if we’re talking about the expense/waste of straight razors, then it would make sense to consider electric razors. I’ve seen so many ads about companies trying to “invent” the most effective, lowest cost straight razor and it still confuses me, given we already have ele…

It's weird that men still shave at all to be honest. The world is casual enough that you're not expected to have a "close" shave. I use a Wahl Peanut with no guard, takes maybe one minute. Costs $65 and lasts 5 years easily. You can also use it to give yourself a buzz cut, if you're so inclined, and save even more money.

Believe it or not, some men like the look and feel of a close shave. And for many, saving money is not a number one priority when getting a hair cut.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#527

Post by wbsss4412 » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #231

caymanjim wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't try frying eggs in a cast iron, for instance (technically you can, but it requires an absurd amount of oil). You need to learn how to season and care for cast iron. It doesn't take an absurd amount of oil, and the egg should slide out with ease.

>> season and care for cast iron So they need more work and skill than other pans. In other words: they are in fact less convenient . Cast iron also has multiple issues when used with induction ranges, which are by far the most efficient/environmental cookers.

> Cast iron also has multiple issues when used with induction ranges, which are by far the most efficient/environmental cookers.

This is the first I’m hearing of this. My understanding is that pans only need to be magnetic to work with induction, in which case cast iron are prime candidates for induction.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#528

Post by morsch » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:50 PM UTC

sorenjan wrote: post #483

jader201 wrote: post #398

Why is a thread on electric razors not the top comment on a post about the expense/waste of straight razors? I get that they have some downsides, but if we’re talking about the expense/waste of straight razors, then it would make sense to consider electric razors. I’ve seen so many ads about companies trying to “invent” the most effective, lowest cost straight razor and it still confuses me, given we already have ele…

The manufacturers already thought of that. Now there's Philips Oneblade, electric razors where you have to replace the blades like with manual razors.

And on the other end, manual safety razors that need a battery (e.g. Gilette Power Fusion).

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#529

Post by agentultra » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

Frost1x wrote: post #194

agentultra wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straight razor here too. Primarily because I wanted to get off the cost and waste wheel. It’s great. I sharpen my own knife and woodworking tools. So learning to sharpen my razor is no big deal. Now my only expense is occasionally buying some soap or aftershave once a year or so. And my time I suppose maintaining the razor which isn’t much at all.

>And my time I suppose maintaining the razor which isn’t much at all. Definitely not the case for me. As someone whose been recently exploring properly sharpening some high quality kitchen knives at home, there's a cost in time for sure to do things correclty both learning and executing. Once you learn, it's not too bad but there's a learning curve and time factor that's difficult to ignore. I need to set aside a goo…

Sure, learning how to sharpen is non-negligible. Like most skills it takes time to gain proficiency at first and pays off later.

I only have to sharpen my straight razor maybe twice a year at most.

Kitchen knives depends on use but a typical sharpening is 15 minutes maybe? I might do this 3 - 4 times a year.

I do woodworking with hand tools which need to be sharpened far more often and that is fairly time consuming... but so is making wood projects from hand tools. I consider it part of the process.

If we get to fully economic decision making the case can be made to prefer convenience over all else because of paperclip maximization. Instead of buying organic clothes made by hand and spending the time to maintain and repair them we prefer fast-fashion. It's cheaper in time and money to simply buy a brand new shirt. Along with the many other benefits it entails.

But that has a cost too, doesn't it? Landfills chock full of disposed-of clothes, beaches covered in cables of clothes that have washed up on shore, and they're mostly made of oil-based products and will take centuries to degrade. People with families and children literally starving and wrecking their bodies in sweat shops to produce these throw-away, convenient, cheap clothes.

Some times taking time to do things the slow, inconvenient way has a lot of benefits too that are not immediately obvious until we take a step back and stop trying to be in such a rush.

Re: Shaving is an example of how consumer products extract more money

#530

Post by asdff » Sat, May 07, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

diogenescynic wrote: post #150

motohagiography wrote: post #11

I've used a straight razor for almost 20 years. Vindicating to read that the price of a Dovo pays for itself. I think my bar of shaving soap is probably the better part of decade old as well. In the interim, a whole peculiar subculture around shaving has developed, but you don't have to be a part of it to just use a razor. Makes you unreachable by corporate marketing as well, which is itself its own reward.

I use safety razors because it is must sharper than a regular disposable razor. As a result, you don't need to do multiple passes over the same area which leads to less razor burn and skin irritation. I buy a couple hundred new blades every few years for $25-$30 and never have to throw money away on a $10 Mach XXX or whatever... I am actually surprised more dermatologists and skin experts haven't recommended safety/s…

ymmv. its interesting reading everyones different techniques and experiences here. I've never felt I had to do two passes with a 3 blade. I let them get dull too before they are swapped out, although these 3 blades are for sensitive skin so they are nicer than your standard mach3. I'm probably paying less than you for blades a year though. I can't remember when I bought the huge $35 pack I have.