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What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

reuters.com

521–530 of 791 posts

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#521
post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Azov Battalion is the cause of everything, it seems. They're recruiting everywhere, I'm surprised it itself isn't the whole of the Ukrainian defenses now, if I believed all of the Russian shills. /s/Azov Battalion/Ukrainian National Guard/

Yeah, they have around 2500 members, but that's totally a reason to lose 2000 people a day in an unprovoked invasion and tank your entire country's economy while doing it. Would be nice if Europe and the US would seize Putin and associates' accounts and donate them to Ukraine.

It's basically akin to Canada deciding to invade the US because of the existence of the Proud Boys.

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#522
post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia doesn't have a big track military track record in recent years, but there's one thing that they have proven to do really well: leveling a city to the ground while slaughtering the civilians who didn't flee. Having the Ukrainian legitimate government agree to surrender to save Kiev (or “just” Khariv) from such a fate isn't completely impossible to imagine. And giving infantry weapons isn't going to be enough to…

The thing is, once they do that, they'll cross another one of those imaginary lines. And the sanctions Russia is under will be nothing like the ones that will be heaped on top. Europe is highly sensitive about local conflicts, especially after what happened to Srebrenica. Grozny didn't really count since it was: a) an internal war b) at the end of Europe If Putin flattens a major European city (for Europe any city ab…

We have not seen what the Germany Army is capable of since 80 years ago. Does Putin really want to find out what has changed since then?

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#524
post #168

This cites but doesn't link "The Mysterious Case of the Missing Russian Air Force", which is a much more thorough treatment: https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentar... They list three possible explanations: * Too few precision-guided munitions (PGMs) * Risk of friendly fire from surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) due to poor coordination * Lack of experienced Russian pilots

Could it be they are saving their airforce in case of western involvement?

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#525
post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, once they do that, they'll cross another one of those imaginary lines. And the sanctions Russia is under will be nothing like the ones that will be heaped on top. Europe is highly sensitive about local conflicts, especially after what happened to Srebrenica. Grozny didn't really count since it was: a) an internal war b) at the end of Europe If Putin flattens a major European city (for Europe any city ab…

We have not seen what the Germany Army is capable of since 80 years ago. Does Putin really want to find out what has changed since then?

The German Army isn't capable of much at the moment.

And even if it were, no NATO member will set foot in Ukraine while this war and the following insurgency are happening.

What will happen is, depending on how hard Putin pushes, the reaction will be just as strong. More attacks targeting civilians? More weapons sent to Ukraine. Harder sanctions, with actual teeth. I wouldn't be shocked if by next winter 60%+ of the gas supply for Western Europe will be covered from other vendors, more or less bankrupting Russia (a huge percentage of Russian exports are raw materials, primarily oil and gas).

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia doesn't have a big track military track record in recent years, but there's one thing that they have proven to do really well: leveling a city to the ground while slaughtering the civilians who didn't flee. Having the Ukrainian legitimate government agree to surrender to save Kiev (or “just” Khariv) from such a fate isn't completely impossible to imagine. And giving infantry weapons isn't going to be enough to…

Fallujah and Mosul were pretty bad in terms of city levelling. We just don't like to remember them, or think about depleted uranium dust causing birth defects, or what happened to the refugees, or a million other things.

You can't just compare Fallujah and Grozny. Of course urban warfare is destructive to the city no matter what, but the US and Russian tactics are very different, and so is the destruction. Dropping tons of low precision thermobaric weapons on a city is a Russian thing, unmatched in its destruction. (The is no American equivalent to the TOS-1[1] for instance).

That being said, that doesn't mean I approve US invasion of Irak in any way (because I do not), it just feels you're comparing Pearl Harbor with Stalingrad… (Ok, not literally, because there is a two orders of magnitude difference between Pearl Harbor and Stalingrad, but you get the idea).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOS-1

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#527
post #353
post #261

I guess everyone's weighing in with their view, so why not? Firstly, we should be mindful that the fog of war is now in play, and a good amount of what we think we know is unverifiable. With that caveat out of the way... It seems that the Russian soldiers are making efforts to avoid attacking civilians directly. Counterexamples exist and could be explained by rogue units, incompetence, or hot-blooded revenge on local…

suzerainty You can't just lob a hundred dollar word out like that! I spent several moments trying to figure out what your typo was before allowing the possibility that you didn't have one. a relationship in which one state or other polity controls the foreign policy and relations of a tributary state, while allowing the tributary state to have internal autonomy

[deleted]

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#528
post #42

I believe they were working under the assumption it would be a walk in the park, once the central government was captured or killed. To strengthen this assumption here's a canned article which was likely meant to be published had things gone according to plan, but pulled, since they hadn't. https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20... RIA is a state owned news agency. Why precisely they thought the…

What's Russian for "We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators"?

  - How do people meet you at the liberated territories?  
  - Well. Smiles. Flowers. Tears of happiness… 
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1498766669614886924

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#529
post #261

I guess everyone's weighing in with their view, so why not? Firstly, we should be mindful that the fog of war is now in play, and a good amount of what we think we know is unverifiable. With that caveat out of the way... It seems that the Russian soldiers are making efforts to avoid attacking civilians directly. Counterexamples exist and could be explained by rogue units, incompetence, or hot-blooded revenge on local…

I don't even see how (b) is going to work at this point--with the massive flow of weapons and money that is coming from the West, and NATO safe havens on the borders, Russia will be playing whack-a-mole against insurgency forever no matter how much force they use. Imagine if the Iraq or Afghanistan insurgencies had had access to an endless supply of top-of-the-line weapons, orders of magnitude more funding, and 'safe…

> It seems like Putin went on tilt. It's hard to fathom any rational justification for this.

At least destabilizing Ukraine is necessary to prevent near-term, rapid decline for the Russian Federation. Ukraine's energy production potential and proximity to Europe make them a likely serious competitor, at a time when renewables are already putting pressure on petrostates like Russia.

Russia made Ukrainian resources in the East difficult to exploit with their fomenting or fabricating a persistent rebellion out that way, and seized most of Ukraine's substantial resources in the Black Sea when they took Crimea outright—but Crimea's dependent on Ukrainian fresh water, which has quite literally dried up for obvious reasons, and Russia's having a hell of a time (that is, spending huge amounts of money to limited effect) supporting Crimea without holding some of the mainland.

This is part of a series of actions aimed at creating short- and mid-term economic stability for Russia, while also improving their strategic situation. I would guess that an acceptable, if not perfect, outcome for them would be bringing the Eastern ~1/3 to 1/2 of Ukraine under Russian control, and it looks like they may yet manage to play their hand to effect such a partition, despite their bizarrely-inept invasion.

It does appear that they've blundered, overall, and not just though military fuck-ups—the sanctions are likely causing a ton of pain, NATO and the EU are more united against them than they've been in a long time and are re-arming (as in Germany), and they managed to bump energy independence way up the priority list for the EU. However, there are good reasons for them to (have tried to) do what they're doing.

Re: What happened to Russias Air Force? U.S. officials, experts stumped

#530
It makes me wonder if the best deterrence (and perhaps that is the psyops being exercised here) to Putin is to threaten the external (and perhaps internal?) perception of Russia's military might. If other nations generally start to perceive that Russia isn't able to competently or effectively exercise its military then that is a much bigger strategic loss than some sanctions.

It will quickly make the option of negotiating a treaty and taking any small face saving win as a symbolic success look far more attractive than appearing impotent and incompetent and unable to even control a nation directly on its own borders.

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