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Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

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Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#521

I just cancelled my drive subscription. I don't know how anyone could continue using it after this. I probably have dozens of docs and hundreds of research papers contradicting government health advice on diabetes and heart disease. These would fall under "Misleading content related to harmful health practices" since they promote a health theory which the government considers harmful. However I would have cancelled r…

Some commenter replied it will change nothing. I disagree (but didn't downvote) - it will change the number of people in the market for a competitor. There are competitors out there and the people who are cancelling their Drive subscriptions here are going to support them financially, building a viable rival to Drive with their dollars. More competition is one of the best possible outcomes and I fully support it. Please cancel your Google subscriptions, folks!

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#522
I'm not quite sure how Google's announcement that Drive is now subject to censorship comes as a shock to anyone. Google already heavily censors their search results and I am concerned that no one is talking about it in relation to this. As bad as the voilation of privacy and dictatorial intentions that now apply to Drive are, I believe that search result augmentation is far worse. In absolute terms, now that "to Google" is synonymous to every possible form of "to search", "to know", or to "to discover" it as an organization is actively crushing independent thinking. Throughout many conversations with younger folks and even hapless adults, I have discovered the prevailing attitude toward the act of thinking to have diverged outside of the notion of self. When something is to be discovered, it is to be searched for. There is no critical thinking involved in this process. Due to the immediacy of seemingly correct or cogent information, people have ceased relying on any other metric in the evaluation of information besides a measurement of consensus. The problem is that they directly associate this measurement with the rank of a result in a search engine. The thinking goes that because it is ranked towards the top it must be more true.

But what happens when truthiness is only measured through consensus and commonness? The most dire and direct consequence is that the rate of convergence toward true diversity of thought is absolutely flattened. This artifact is one of the main causes in the existential division in the U.S. The real crisis is that the ranking of the truthiness of an opinion on important social issues that are presented through Google's search results is treated and evaluated like objective fact. When presented with only opinion and information about social issues that one strongly agrees with, the disciplined and liberal thinker might imagine themselves on the other side of the situation and consider what to do when faced with only information that he or she disagrees with. What then?

As an example, try searching Google for the phrase "Systemic racism is not real". The only results that appear are in opposition to the assertion. The searcher is then faced with a quandary about whether to question the reality that all opposing points of view are absent. But as I've pointed out, the new default to laziness and consensus acceptance guarantees that the searcher's true belief about this complex issue will default to what is offered. The noble cause of the searcher, to believe in an America where Good and Honest people are free to seek others who wish to treat other humans based on their character rather than a pitifully shallow discriminant as melanin level, to learn about the noble spirit of their own country, and who hate to be told that they must be complicit in some sort of hellish oppression of others are faced with nothing but a brutal emptiness. No wonder everyone thinks America is damned and doomed! No wonder we all feel so alone. We sit in our apartments and stare at the consensus feed. We let it alter our emotions and perceptions without thinking for ourselves. We live in vast cities of millions of individuals who want nothing more than to be fed the consensus and forget our neighbors. By censoring and skewing social issues like this we are forced to abandon the liberal notions that are the foundation of Western thought. What free thinker is brave enough to fight the shallow consensus of millions of lazy thinkers who are being spoon fed perspectives of a select few far left technocrats? This is the modern book burning. The Arbiter of the zeitgeist sits behind an innocent text box and it grows ever more powerful.

I challenge the reader to be truly disciplined in their analysis, set aside their political leanings, and objectively consider the perspective of a right winger who just saw Twitter silence their leader and watched Amazon boot the only social network where they could speak their mind, Parler, out of existence. We discuss these companies as if they are just organizations who are just private companies out to make money but any rational person can look at these actions and evaluate them to be political forces that are heavily biased and who are asserting their control. We circle endlessly around discussions about whether they are publishers or platforms and it is obvious that they are both. Google has intentionally steered the very nature of the internet into their control. The only way to be known is to advertise on their platform and you must pay them to do that. They protect this modality at all costs and offer the free services that we are discussing as an indirection away from their intent. Make no mistake: Google wants to become the internet. But the horrible reality is that they already have and no one has noticed. Google and Amazon alone control an almost absolute majority of servers that host the entire internet. They could turn it off if they so chose. Companies are willingly giving control of the critical parts of their business to these companies. If Amazon and Google go down every business that hosts on their servers is doomed.

Microsoft is just as bad. They are actively trying to take away the control of user's computers by hosting Windows in the cloud. What happens when they only make it available in the cloud on their servers? Worse still, we developers are giving up all of our control to them by hosting everything on Github. What did they do when we made all of our code and expertise avialable to them for free? They trained an AI on it with the intention of centralizing the very skill we gave them and are going to try to sell it back to us in the form of Copilot. What happens when your employer only trusts you to verify Copilot's output and not write anything for yourself? What happens to the next generation of programmers who don't even know how to write code without their help? Microsoft's seemingly benevolent attitude towards developers is just another example of the damage centralization is causing.

This announcement is just another assertion of totalitarian control. The ruthless centralization these companies are seeking is an existential danger to everyone. The threat is critical! We are in mortal danger. We have given them complete control and are doing nothing about it.

The only option that can save us is to build an alternative and compete with them.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#523
post #310

What. The. Hell. I suppose limiting sharing might be justified. But limiting access and/or deleting own files is outrageous. For that matter, collections of misleading content can have legitimate purposes. Such as research. Now I'm seriously considering dropping my Drive subscription. Update: I got a lot of upvotes, but tbh I may have misunderstood the new policy, which does seem to (maybe?) only be limited to distri…

A recent high profile example is the lab leak "conspiracy theory". Facebook block discussion of the possibility that Covid-19 started from a lab leak, but now scientists are seriously considering the issue. Imagine if Google had this policy last year, and a scientist posted a Google Slides presentation about the merits of the lab theory (and imagine it was banned under the misleading "health" information umbrella) ..…

Maybe it should be the scientists and journalists exploring that possibility, not random Facebook conspiracy nuts? Once an conspiracy is broven true, then FB can let it ride.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#524
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your fundamental error is in the fact that you think that a private company (and market competition) can fix these issues. It seems that many people on HN are just waiting for the new Savior company, that will magically have incentives to fight for them instead of making money. It's like hoping for market competition create health regulation in the food industry. Turns out, not even Apple is that messiah, and…

I think another error is assuming that having all content within a few hyper-scale hyper-global ad-supported commercial repositories of everything is a natural or healthy state of affairs. Many small websites dedicated to particular things is IMO generally better both from a free speech and a moderation standpoint than these giants that have to thread an impossible needle. In other words, web 1.0 was better.

Can't agree more.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#525

I see a lot of comments misinterpreting this. First, it's not about private files, it's about distributing content. Google isn't spying on your private files, but does scan them when you share them publicly. E.g. keep all the pirated movies you want on your Drive, and even give private access to friends, but the moment you make them publicly viewable Google scans them and limits access accordingly. So no, this isn't…

There's something fundamentally flawed about the idea that censorship in the name of preventing misinformation is protecting the foundation of democracy. You cannot have true democracy if people cannot disagree with their governments, they must be able to disagree with any truth or opinion such a government might consider self-evident, just on the off chance they're right. I should at this point note that Google does…

> There's something fundamentally flawed

There isn't really. You're adopting, I assume, J.S. Mill's view, that the cure for bad speech is more speech, which he famously published in 1859.

However, since then it's been widely accepted that when speech reaches a certain level of harm then the greater good is to prevent/punish it. You can't incite violence under the guise of free speech. You can't advertise that something is safe when it's not. This is because more speech can't undo violence and death after it occurs.

And when it comes to misinformation with regards to provable and intentional lies about voting procedures, election results, etc. that falsely harm the country's institutions and legitimacy, it's entirely consistent for that to fall under the widely-accepted prohibition of speech that rises to a certain threshold of harm. It directly leads to mobs, riots, and revolution based on lies, not based on actual injustices.

This doesn't mean any harmful speech is prohibited -- that's ridiculous. You're generally allowed to insult people, tell lies, etc. But there's a threshold of harm that gets established.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#526

The road to hell is paved with "good intentions". We desperately need to find a globally adoptable alternative to google and the services that it provides. Docs, Sheets, Drive, etc. are fantastic services in that they work really well on a massive scale. However, Google's increasing role as an arbiter of right vs wrong and a steward of information puts too much power into the hands of one corporation, whose best inte…

The issue is that we know from experience, after 20+ years of the modern Internet, that if you make a 'free speech' drive/repository place that's widely available, it will host the absolute worst of the human race. Then, let's say you personally were in charge of said Free Speech Drive- every day you'd get up and hear about people using it for (legal) jailbait photos, Islamic State recruiting, collaboration between e…

> The issue is that we know from experience, after 20+ years of the modern Internet, that if you make a 'free speech' drive/repository place that's widely available, it will host the absolute worst of the human race. Then, let's say you personally were in charge of said Free Speech Drive- every day you'd get up and hear about people using it for (legal) jailbait photos, Islamic State recruiting, collaboration between extremist militia groups in various countries (including your own), actual illegal content, and so on. Pretty soon the FBI & CIA start contacting you about some of the actual or borderline illegal content being hosted on Free Speech Drive. Do you want to deal with that?

Imagine if there was some kind of website or network that existed for years with barely no rules or enforcement, like image boards that only remove CP or a decentralized anonymizing network with even decentralized payment systems. That would be the end of the world.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#527
Relevant: How The CIA made Google (2015) https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-goo...

Is Google honestly acting following economic interests? Is it to avoid liability from hosting damaging content? Is it acting to protect us?

Google, which isn't event the most valuable company in the world, is worth above all but - give or take - the top 36 countries in the world.

A company of this size wields immense power while simultaneously remaining unhampered by all the dead weight governments have to haul around to get anything done.

[edit: switched link to original]

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#528

The road to hell is paved with "good intentions". We desperately need to find a globally adoptable alternative to google and the services that it provides. Docs, Sheets, Drive, etc. are fantastic services in that they work really well on a massive scale. However, Google's increasing role as an arbiter of right vs wrong and a steward of information puts too much power into the hands of one corporation, whose best inte…

Google could be sued if they helped distribute dangerous misleading health-information. It's really not about their "good intentions" but about their self-interest. It's not about freedom of speech either. Everybody has the right to say whatever they want, and Google has the right not to distribute it. Free markets 101. The fact that Google has de facto monopoly in some areas is a problem that government needs to dea…

Google (and all other providers) can not be sued for their users distributing "dangerous" or whatever content. This is literally the purpose of section 230. The only exception is the sex trafficking stuff covered under SESTA/FOSTA.

Whatever pressure they're getting to do this comes from somewhere besides the threat of private civil lawsuits.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#529
post #180

The road to hell is paved with "good intentions". We desperately need to find a globally adoptable alternative to google and the services that it provides. Docs, Sheets, Drive, etc. are fantastic services in that they work really well on a massive scale. However, Google's increasing role as an arbiter of right vs wrong and a steward of information puts too much power into the hands of one corporation, whose best inte…

I think your fundamental error is in the fact that you think that a private company (and market competition) can fix these issues. It seems that many people on HN are just waiting for the new Savior company, that will magically have incentives to fight for them instead of making money. It's like hoping for market competition create health regulation in the food industry. Turns out, not even Apple is that messiah, and…

Honestly a lot of folks should assess the value that big tech provides. We survived the 90’s running MSDOS backing stuff up to disks. And storage is cheap. Cloud this-and-that is great in theory but in practice it makes things too complicated. For instance, whenever I use a cloud-centric application I’m thinking okay… so where’s my files? And the answer is who knows!

More specifically I used to use OneNote when it used the local file system and I could get to my data. Then MSFT puts everything behind a cryptic ten-layer hashed URI…

The tech industry is like an insurance company now selling people on fear of losing files or productivity—but I’d wager more often than not technology gets in the way of folks productivity. By technology I mean fluffy clouds because obviously tech CAN help.

We need a better balance and a lot of that starts by keeping it simple.

Re: Google Drive bans distribution of “misleading content”

#530

The road to hell is paved with "good intentions". We desperately need to find a globally adoptable alternative to google and the services that it provides. Docs, Sheets, Drive, etc. are fantastic services in that they work really well on a massive scale. However, Google's increasing role as an arbiter of right vs wrong and a steward of information puts too much power into the hands of one corporation, whose best inte…

I think I hate you.

"But the money" is your argument for contributing to something you recognize as evil. Good on you for having at least some conscience so it "weighs on you". Apparently the money is too good though, or you don't care enough. Curious which one it is.

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