‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#521

Post by bluGill » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 12:48 PM UTC

bregma wrote: post #231

bluGill wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in person companies believe that personal interactions will make the people they can hire better than the WFH companies so it works out. WFH is hard to manage. A lot of things that get shared in "hallway communication" become formal meetings. I make no claim as to who is right, but there are downsides to everything.

It's hard to have a hallway conversation when you're constantly being watched to make you keep your bottom in your seat.

I've never worked in a place like that. Every place I've worked I've been able to get up and talk to people as I felt the need. I've never seen a place where you couldn't check a fun website (porn and the like would get you walked out the door of course) - I'm told government won't allow checking the web, but every company I've been with trusts me to not abuse the network. Most of my coworkers regularly check the score of their favorite sports team and some even yell to their boss (who might be a fan of the other team) the score.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#522

Post by bluGill » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

0xffff2 wrote: post #451

bluGill wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one exception to your location arbitrage: those who want a hobby farm. if you need to go to the office every day your hobby farm will be close to the city. If you only go in once a week a 1.5 hour drive doesn't sound so bad and you can move farther out meaning more land for the same number of people who want a horse or whatever. This is only a tiny subset of people though, and is more the exception that prov…

If you're in a major metro like the bay area, 1.5 hours still doesn't get you far enough to afford anything like enough land for a hobby farm on anything short of a FANNG salary.

You need a FANNG salary to afford most hobby farms even if the land was free. It is possible to make a good living farming a hobby farm sized lot, but most hobby farms are not managed to do that (most are about horses which are a large money sink)

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#523

Post by bluGill » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 12:54 PM UTC

0xffff2 wrote: post #510

jedberg wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does. 1.5 hours gets you to Stockton or Gilroy or Modesto of Fairfield and lots of other more open places where you can get a few acres at a decent price.

Based on a quick look at Zillow, 5 acres (undeveloped, no house) goes for nearly a million dollars. We have fundamentally different ideas of what constitutes a "decent price" if that qualifies for you. I'm 6 hours drive from the my office in Mountain View now, and I'm looking at a similarly undeveloped plot that's 250 acres and worth somewhere between $200k and $300k.

A house can be built on that lot for $150k (though most will probably spend more like 200k), a barn for another 100k. Still cheaper than a similar house right in SF.

There are cities other than than the west coast as well. 5 acres 1.5 hours from Minneapolis will be 300k with a house.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#524

Post by rubicon33 » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

ducharmdev wrote: post #517

rubicon33 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. You sound SO different from me. I really struggle to form relationships so easily, yet it sounds like you making lasting relationships wherever you go. I find that kind of fascinating. As someone who just went back into the office with the whole intent on being more social, I still find that my interactions with coworkers are at "arms length" and are very sterile. Hard to imagine a relationship with them outside…

Not OP, but I always try to watch out for opportunities to talk about other people's interests. When someone's eyes light up about a topic or they get an excited tone, I try to ask them open-ended questions to get them talking more. Its pretty affirming to get thoughtful questions about a topic you have strong interest in. It works even better if you can manage to remember those things people get excited about. Even…

I do the same, but getting people to open up to discuss that initial thing that interests them can be a challenge in itself. I think that's the art of small talk, it's teasing out information from someone, and gaining their trust, so that they eventually let their guard down and mention something close to them that you can expand on. I have no problem connecting with people past that point, but it's the initial small talk and trust gaining stages where I suck.

I've heard from people who are good at this that it comes from a genuine interest in other people. They're able to work through the small talk phase because they're driven by an intrinsic desire to learn more about the person. I definitely do not have that trait.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#525

Post by rytor718 » Fri, Jul 02, 2021, 9:07 PM UTC

test_epsilon wrote: post #519

rytor718 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it could be people dont prefer to socialize at libraries (I have always been taught its a quiet place, personally)? I agree with the person you respond to: we kinda haven't figured out the social spaces thing, nor had to figure it out, for a very, very long time. All of our current shared social spaces are conventions from a time past that we continue because they're still relevant (bars/pubs, clubs, private clubs…

> Or it could be people dont prefer to socialize at libraries (I have always been taught its a quiet place, personally)? People don't prefer to socialize anywhere. Libraries definitely used to be a much more social community hub though. But I'm not just talking about socializing but "shared spaces", as OP said. People working, meeting, relaxing just weren't there. And it is not for lack of room. The people there as I…

YMMV, obviously your locale and my locale don't suffer the same issue with shared spaces.

> Is the problem this meaningless new phrase "shared space"? We've always had festivals and markets and shows and concerts and things like that.

The point was that this is all where I live in terms of shared spaces and I seize those opportunities. The idea being, there is a need for shared spaces. For example, whenever a block party is organized here there's not really any public space to host it. Not enough greenery per district where daily activities of the locals can vary but special events, for said locals, are easy to put together. That's a void.

As for the term, I understood the spirit of it to mean public spaces to socialize, where any variety of activities can be done alone or with others. Examples include parks with chess tables, public pools and nature reserves. You can easily go to these kinds of places, socialize with perfect strangers or go alone and still be surrounded by people in your community. Again YMMV and that's OK. I'm open to any ideas so long as those spaces exist.

I agree and think it'll always be hard to trust strangers. But the more opportunities communities have to socialize, the easier it is to build that trust -- but they have to exist. When there's a lack of spaces, that just compounds the trust issue.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#526

Post by test_epsilon » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 3:42 AM UTC

rytor718 wrote: post #525

test_epsilon wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or it could be people dont prefer to socialize at libraries (I have always been taught its a quiet place, personally)? People don't prefer to socialize anywhere. Libraries definitely used to be a much more social community hub though. But I'm not just talking about socializing but "shared spaces", as OP said. People working, meeting, relaxing just weren't there. And it is not for lack of room. The people there as I…

YMMV, obviously your locale and my locale don't suffer the same issue with shared spaces. > Is the problem this meaningless new phrase "shared space"? We've always had festivals and markets and shows and concerts and things like that. The point was that this is all where I live in terms of shared spaces and I seize those opportunities. The idea being, there is a need for shared spaces. For example, whenever a block p…

> YMMV, obviously your locale and my locale don't suffer the same issue with shared spaces.

Suffer what same issue? You said there is a void of "modern social spaces" around you. Is that the issue you're talking about? I'm saying opening up empty office space to the public carte blanche won't turn them into vibrant engaging places that the community will gravitate to.

> The point was that this is all where I live in terms of shared spaces and I seize those opportunities. The idea being, there is a need for shared spaces. For example, whenever a block party is organized here there's not really any public space to host it. Not enough greenery per district where daily activities of the locals can vary but special events, for said locals, are easy to put together. That's a void.

Isn't a block party specifically organized on the block for local people to turn up to without having to go far? Isn't the block exactly the desired public space for this? I don't see what the void is there, sidewalks and verges are public spaces.

If you think buildings anybody is free to go in and out of to have parties in would be a good idea, I'm not sure what to say.

People are perfectly free to open their houses and invite neighbors to have a party too (which occasionally happens on my street). Or you can book venues or organize to go to a partk (where do you live that has no parks in walking distance?). The point is this rarely happens because people don't really want to invest in this. A block party takes very little investment in time or money or location.

> As for the term, I understood the spirit of it to mean public spaces to socialize, where any variety of activities can be done alone or with others. Examples include parks with chess tables, public pools and nature reserves. You can easily go to these kinds of places, socialize with perfect strangers or go alone and still be surrounded by people in your community. Again YMMV and that's OK. I'm open to any ideas so long as those spaces exist.

I'm just saying they exist everywhere (including side walks and verges if you want a block party) and are under utilized. The demand is not there.

> I agree and think it'll always be hard to trust strangers. But the more opportunities communities have to socialize, the easier it is to build that trust -- but they have to exist. When there's a lack of spaces, that just compounds the trust issue.

Turning the public loose on vacant buildings I guarantee will not do anything to increase trust. The results will make people rightly very angry.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#527

Post by dreamcompiler » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

achow wrote: post #166

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

In my experience at least talking to some younger people there is a clear dichotomy: despite all the talk about Gen Z being "digital natives", people new in their career are much hungrier to get back into the office because they don't yet have good career networks built up and they're eager for mentorship. It is older, or at least more established workers who are less keen on that. I don't think FAANGs will have any…

From a single, young: I miss the office for.. - Free and convenient food. - Social chatter & engagement. - Making friends with employees who I don't know and connecting with new employees. - Work life separation (balance). - Proper workstation, climate controlled environment. - Sense of belonging - team outing, after hours beers.. - Intra and inter company sports and games. - Meeting potential dates. [Not me. Just em…

Wow. As an introvert I find most of the items on this list to be sheer torture. I have quit jobs where it was a de facto requirement to aggressively socialize with my coworkers.

I do like free food though :-)

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#528

Post by nklop » Sat, Jul 03, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #500

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Offices are full of people trying to give each other eating disorders through passive aggression, politics and generally pointless power games. Seriously, does half of HN work in the real-life equivalent of "The Office"? Yes, office politics exist, but this idea that it's some sort of scheming, back-stabbing environment is a caricature I have never experienced in my nearly 30 year career.

The bigger caricature is imagining that it all goes away if you just WFH. It doesn't magically go away, it just keeps happening, almost certainly to your detriment.

I didn't write or imply that WFH provided that protection.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#529

Post by BooneJS » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 12:12 AM UTC

randcraw wrote: post #440

BooneJS wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Amazon are both in Madison.

It's probably like Google's office in Ann Arbor -- 450 people in advertising, marketing, and sales.

No, we’re actually all hardware and software engineering in Madison.

Re: ‘Great Resignation’ gains steam as return-to-work plans take effect

#530

Post by ducharmdev » Sun, Jul 04, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #524

ducharmdev wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I always try to watch out for opportunities to talk about other people's interests. When someone's eyes light up about a topic or they get an excited tone, I try to ask them open-ended questions to get them talking more. Its pretty affirming to get thoughtful questions about a topic you have strong interest in. It works even better if you can manage to remember those things people get excited about. Even…

I do the same, but getting people to open up to discuss that initial thing that interests them can be a challenge in itself. I think that's the art of small talk, it's teasing out information from someone, and gaining their trust, so that they eventually let their guard down and mention something close to them that you can expand on. I have no problem connecting with people past that point, but it's the initial small…

I can understand that; I think there's also hesitation at that point in any relationship, where both parties are unsure of how much to invest in further social interactions.

One thing I would say though: if you believe that this is an intrinsic trait that others have, rather than something that can be learned, then this belief may hold you back more than you may think.