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Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

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Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#521
post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like I’m at a loss for words as to why you think religion is a source of control. Unless you mean discipline. Why do people still have to attack religion?

> Why do people still have to attack religion? Because religions are still dangerous animals, if you would indulge this metaphor. Just because we managed to declaw and tame one (values of Enlightenment supplanting values of Christianity), it does not mean that we can treat all of them imprudently. I suggest that you are arguing from the point-of-view that "my $ANIMAL is well-behaved and has not and would not hurt any…

> Because religions are still dangerous animals

With all but one preaching peace, and not hate, please explain.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#522
post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like I’m at a loss for words as to why you think religion is a source of control. Unless you mean discipline. Why do people still have to attack religion?

> Why do people still have to attack religion? Because religions are still dangerous animals, if you would indulge this metaphor. Just because we managed to declaw and tame one (values of Enlightenment supplanting values of Christianity), it does not mean that we can treat all of them imprudently. I suggest that you are arguing from the point-of-view that "my $ANIMAL is well-behaved and has not and would not hurt any…

I defend almost all religions, just not mine.

Removing religion completely has been tried in a larger scale experiment in the Soviet Union and the results were very much worse than the most barbaric religions.

When arguing about religion one shouldn't forget that they have a number of good attributes as well.

Otherwise you are just fighting against a straw man and then it is no wonder why you win every single time : )

Besides:

> Just because we managed to declaw and tame one (values of Enlightenment supplanting values of Christianity)

This is putting the cart before the horse.

It wasn't enlightenment that ended blood revenge, brought herbs and fruits and medicine and and and to Europe.

It was monks.

Enlightenment grew out of the fertile soil of literacy and surplus and relative peace and quiet that this created, not the other way around.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of evidence that masks protect against bacteria, but the jury's still out for viruses. Also, you are correct that people should be strategic, but a lot of people aren't, and they are not changing their masks regularly as they should be.

I'm sorry but you're not making any sense defending your straw man. You're flip flopping your arguments so I can just recursively revert you to my initial answer.

Why not respond to the new information they presented instead of attacking by claiming "muh logical fallacy"?

Your initial answer does not disprove or refute their more nuanced response, which very much does matter on this subject.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#525
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't that our authorities are changing their beliefs based on new evidence coming in. The problem is that our authorities are changing beliefs based on the current political situation, pretending that that reflects shifting evidence and, worst of all, not admitting that they've changed their views. Let's take the current debate over the "lab leak" hypothesis as an example. A large amount of the evidence,…

At the time, i was asking myself why the lab-leak was rejected. I mean, its obviously not human-made, but why couldn't it be a contagion inside the lab from an already made virus. Now, maybe its reactance, but i believe the zoonose more likely.

Yes, for the record, I believed then (and still believe today) that the virus has zoonotic origins. The primary point of evidence that the lab-leak advocates point to, the fact that the animal reservoir hasn't yet been identified, isn't convincing to me. It took more than a decade to find the animal reservoir for SARS. We still don't know where the animal reservoir is for Ebola.

Similarly, the presence of the "furin cleavage site", which supposedly makes the virus ideal for spreading in humans is less significant than it appears. There are numerous other coronaviruses which have the same feature, and it's plausible that SARS-COV-2 picked up the feature via recombination somewhere on its way to becoming a virus that spread primarily among humans.

But all that is beside the point. The point is that many voices that took on the air of authority during the pandemic changed their view for no reason other than shifts in the broader political climate. It has made people suspicious and frustrated with the experts, which then leads them to embrace crackpot theories peddled by those who (correctly) point out that the authoritative sources in the media have been lying to them.

The solution, as I see it, isn't that the media should get its facts and story right the first time. That's impossible, especially in a fast-changing situation like the early stages of a global pandemic. What the media (and by "the media", I mean major newspapers like the New York Times, and major news outlets, like CNN) ought to be doing is stating clearly when one of their stories contradicts a story that they've published in the past, and stating clearly the reason for the contradiction. "We were wrong about masks, because we misinterpreted a directive to preserve masks for emergency workers as meaning that masks were ineffective," would have gone a long way towards helping convince mask skeptics about the need for masks when the media suddenly reversed its advice.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#526
post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So healthy people should partake in the vaccination as for them, the risk-reward ratio is definitely worth it. How can you make this decision for someone else?

Risk reward ratio is not a decision, it’s an objective measure. It’s a different question what and how can be forced on people, but the issue is clear: healthy people should get vaccinated.

Why don’t we just let the healthy people decide for themselves?

Do you know everybody’s medical condition? Are you a physician or nurse in any way? You’re just regurgitating Fauci’s ramblings without regard to individuals concerns demanding they get the vaccine. How many people do you think you’ve convinced to get the vaccine?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure if I go to the ICU it’s my insurance company paying the bill. Also suddenly we care about how much tax revenue we spend?

In my country we do.

Well in my country we don’t care because we’ll just borrow or print more and tax while we’re at it. I can’t count how many times Biden said “not spending enough”. So I guess I misspoke, we do care about how much we spend, but mostly that it’s as large as possible so we can use it as an excuse to increase taxes further.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#528
post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we don’t force people to get all vaccines to travel. Requiring a vaccine passport for the covid vaccine forces people to get it, which is the real reason people are advocating for it.

Yes we do? We've had them for ages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_requirements_for_i...

We’ve had COVId vaccines for ages? Where you been hiding them?

So as per your wiki article no country is requiring them. So really not sure what you’re talking about. There are absolutely some vaccines required for travel, but COVID is not one of them. Just like influenza and a whole host of other vaccines.

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like I’m at a loss for words as to why you think religion is a source of control. Unless you mean discipline. Why do people still have to attack religion?

Genesis 3:16 1 Corinthians 14:34 1 Corinthians 11:5-9 I don't know, why do people still have to do that?

Hmm, how much of this do you think is observed today?

Next question, why are you spot picking the negatives for females but not males?

Final question, do you know at all the story as to why these restrictions are in place?

Re: Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines

#530
post #478

There are a range of anti-vaccine opinions from idiotic (the example Linus quotes) to more reasonable. The way this issue has been handled is emblematic of the way many such political issues are handled: fringe views are promoted and "debunked" while more reasonable views that go against mainstream narratives are ignored. This is amplified by various high profile personalities in the media who shape the views people…

Do you have any examples of such 'reasonable views' that are ignored? Because I don't. I do see a lot of reasonable objections making headlines or having a large impact. E.g. side effects halting entire campaigns for weeks, or large articles highlighting the dowsides of various vaccines, debates on particle sizes and fluid dynamics on national TV and so on.

"If you and your family are more protected these days, it's because of all those other people who made the right choice" I do not understand that from my point of view, what I heard what that vaccine didn't stop you from being contagious to other people.

I'm looking for an educated answer, I'm not anti-vaxx, far from it, I'm just curious about it.

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