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LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

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Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#521

Post by HWR_14 »

m-ee wrote: post #516
HWR_14 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mbgerring's post further up the chain definitely claims that they exceeded the eligibility rules. Inviting people from outside the prioritized neighborhood to come take shots and there being a 4 hour line implies skirting eligibility rules.

I’m saying that claim is not accurate, there were no eligibility rules at this site later on. They tried restricting to get shots to people in west Oakland reached through the networks of the church and other community organizers, then deliberately opened it up to everyone because they had excess supply. I didn’t get my shot there but live a few blocks away. You could argue that they shouldn’t have opened it up, or t…

There were no formal eligibility rules because they didn't want to discourage people without IDs. The pastor did not open it up. Here is an article where he called people from outside the neighborhood "interlopers" and said he hoped word of the site wouldn't spread on social media: https://archive.is/Z55Oe

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#522

Post by [deleted] »

slumpt_ wrote: post #433
grzm wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Any post that challenges dang will likely get voted down." While this may be the case, the comment you reply to is a particularly poor example on which to hang this comment. It's a snarky, insubstantive insinuation, regardless of whom it's in response to, and was edited to complain about downvotes. > "Still it's sorta good that this post wasn't outright deleted." It's likely it wasn't flagged and removed because i…

Oh don't worry, not complaining about downvotes. Just baffled that the community stands by that characterization of the issue at hand. Plays into crummy stereotypes about the tech community and their general naivety regarding social issues / norms (or perhaps worse, apathy?). It's neither snarky nor insubstantive. It gets straight to the heart of the issue in few words. It does speak volumes. Few words can given cont…

[deleted]

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#523

Post by sampo »

whymauri wrote: post #108
anigbrowl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post is a bit inaccurate. Biggar tweeted about his unhappiness about the behavior of a person in the private group. He received a public response fromt he person in question with a dismissive meme. He in turn responded to that. So, one could argue that the line-jumping-advocate relinquished his privacy in the first place.

I'm under the impression that any public commentary about what goes on inside that forum is generally discouraged, but that's just what I've seen. Although this is an interesting point, for sure.

> I'm under the impression that any public commentary about what goes on inside that forum is generally discouraged

When private organizations in their internal culture and functioning deviate too far away from common social norms, you kinda hope that a whistleblower or the press calls them out for it.

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#524

Post by dang »

garmaine wrote: post #383
dang wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but both of those sentences are there for a reason. Without the first I'd be getting lots of "how is it inaccurate?" responses, and without the second I'd be getting protests about moderation practices. My intention was to give enough information (I'm not saying it's a lot) to preempt avalanches of predictable objections. I'm sure I could have done it better, though, because this was far from what Scott a…

You could just say “As there is a conflict of interest, I will not comment on the substance of this tweet.”

But that's not the reason and wouldn't be true.

There's another aspect too: I try to avoid being a bloodless ghoul in communicating with this community. People here don't want stiff corporate pantomimes, and that suits me fine, because I would hate to do that; or rather I can't because my body would reject it. That's an old Willie Brown line btw.

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#525

Post by HWR_14 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #506
HWR_14 wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone's disputing that extra vaccines should go in arms as opposed to getting thrown out. However, given wait times in the 4-8 hour range all over this page, that clearly wasn't the case. And how is this not like standing in line at the DMV. We have a number of people to process and limited resources to process them. It seems like an excellent analogy. If we had to reissue all licenses, I would like to…

I agree with you - it depends and there is a nuance to each situation. Also, it is not like DMV because of the scale of vaccination. Vaccination is more akin to voting - less bureacracy leads to be better outcome. Too many rules and complicated voting process means lower voter turnout. I hope that makes sense. Vaccination isn't an individual's selfish activity (like DMV queue) - it is a social contract and responsibi…

Vaccination is positive for society as well, but when this took place in mid-March it was definitely a selfish activity.

It's not like voting - you voting doesn't prevent me from voting.

Obviously, too many rules is bad. And too few rules are. And, just like voting, this site did not require ID because it would have harmed their ability to help an underserved population. It used the honor system. The people we're talking about violated that.

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#526

Post by Igelau »

ping_pong wrote: post #328
Igelau wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the kind of thing you’re describing could be seen by a reasonable person as unethical False. A reasonable person would know that the shots don't last after they are thawed out. If someone skipped the appointment, the ethical thing to do is put it in the next warm body that's standing by rather than waste the shot. No one owes anyone any "coming clean" over encouraging others not to let those shots go to waste.

Incorrect. J&J vaccine are designed to be stored at regular refrigerator temperatures. They are different from the mRNA vaccines which expire shortly after thawing. So J&J shelf life is much much longer than Pfizer and Moderna and are good for areas where recipients returning for a 2nd vaccine shot are less likely.

Irrelevant. J&J wasn't available at the time of the incident.

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#527

Post by dang »

arolihas wrote: post #411
garmaine wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could just say “As there is a conflict of interest, I will not comment on the substance of this tweet.”

But then he couldn't subtly minimize or delegitimize it.

I didn't think I was being particularly subtle, though it seems I may have buried the lede.

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#528

Post by eyelidlessness »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #507
eyelidlessness wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really disappointing answer. I know, I know discussing moderation here is frowned upon... but come on. You’re basically saying there’s a secondary set of rules that are decided and disclosed arbitrarily. It’s your choice how to moderate, I don’t have any expectation or illusion of a right to use this platform. But can you understand how this creates ambiguity for people who don’t know what the rules ultimat…

> Wouldn’t it be better to refine the rules and disclosure when gaps arise, so everyone is participating in the same system? I don’t agree with this. I think this idea works in computing systems and thus at least programmers are inclined to think in this fashion, however I don’t believe this is how every other framework functions, e.g. , the UK legal system which is largely down to interpretation (and IANAL).

I’m not looking at this from the perspective of law, I’m looking at it from the perspective of judgment that’s partly secret and unknowable.

HN already has a reputation for skewed moderation (certain sites are pre-banned, posting them pre-flags subsequent posts). Making it explicitly something exceptional without any way for people to know what the exception is... again creates a separate set of rules and a basis for people to air unfounded objections.

If HN wants to be Fight Club fine but I’m happy to be on record opposing that so long as I can.

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#529

Post by eyelidlessness »

Firehawke wrote: post #513
eyelidlessness wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really disappointing answer. I know, I know discussing moderation here is frowned upon... but come on. You’re basically saying there’s a secondary set of rules that are decided and disclosed arbitrarily. It’s your choice how to moderate, I don’t have any expectation or illusion of a right to use this platform. But can you understand how this creates ambiguity for people who don’t know what the rules ultimat…

Any kind of working moderation system is going to have a certain level of "we have to play it by ear" or else it gets overrun by rules lawyers playing to the word and not the spirit of imposed rules.

I wasn’t objecting to playing it by ear. I was objecting to committing to doing so and keeping it arbitrary.

Edit so I can hopefully make the spirit of my own complaint more clear: my puppy is defiant and stubborn and clever and a big doofus. Rules are a living document and they get revised all the time. If I communicate them and my expectations we grow together and move on to the next misunderstanding with some grace and patience. If I just decide that the rules change without saying what they are, I’m setting my pup up for failure and myself up for her resentment and an inclination to impose more strictness that she won’t understand.

Re: LOL just got kicked out of @ycombinator

#530

Post by m-ee »

HWR_14 wrote: post #521
m-ee wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m saying that claim is not accurate, there were no eligibility rules at this site later on. They tried restricting to get shots to people in west Oakland reached through the networks of the church and other community organizers, then deliberately opened it up to everyone because they had excess supply. I didn’t get my shot there but live a few blocks away. You could argue that they shouldn’t have opened it up, or t…

There were no formal eligibility rules because they didn't want to discourage people without IDs. The pastor did not open it up. Here is an article where he called people from outside the neighborhood "interlopers" and said he hoped word of the site wouldn't spread on social media: https://archive.is/Z55Oe

That quote was from someone at the office of emergency services, not the pastor. And the workers at the vaccine we’re telling people it was open to everyone 18+. I live here, this is information I got from talking to neighbors. There’s accounts on Reddit saying the same if you dig back in /r/oakland
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