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I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

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Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#521

Post by Salgat »

Peekhakhachu wrote: post #293
ditonal wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically both. When I graduated with my CS degree, I was _thrilled_ to be offered 50k. Now new grads feel lowballed at 200k TC. So hard not to say that the market hasn't adjusted somewhat. At the same time, part of the reason companies even have to pay so much is because they've made interviewing so damn hard. I personally know many people at great companies like Google and Twitter who are _desperate_ to change…

There is no shortage of software developers. It is a rumor created to bring more people in https://youtu.be/6X-SG6bA4Zg?t=77

Shortage of developers or shortage of senior level skilled developers?

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#522

Post by ergocoder »

wreath wrote: post #430
ergocoder wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is normal. Many companies pay for raw skills, ability to learn quickly, ability to hone their skills, attention to details. If you can ace leetcode, topcoder, codejam, and alike in a short period of time, you probably have a very high capability of learning.

There is a lot more to software engineering than solving algorithmic problems in a vacuum with little resemblance to real life engineering.

What you say is an empty statement because it doesn't rank which skills are the most important to a software engineer.

Coding is the core skill of software engineering.

For other skills, say, communication, you will need to have an adequate amount of it, but you don't need to be godlike (e.g. think Bill Clinton's level).

If you have the Bill Clinton's level of communication, you will likely be in other positions.

Now if you have the Bill Clinton's level of coding, you will be software engineer.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#523

Post by sizzle »

d12345m wrote: post #502
nasalgoat wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent nearly a year interviewing at various companies and never landing a job despite decades of practical, relevant experience. It was extremely demoralizing and worrisome, and I believe the majority of the issue was extremely difficult interview processes. The size of the company didn't matter - in fact, the smaller the company, the more difficult and onerous the process was. One place with six employees asked fo…

No offense meant, but if you are surprised about the existence of Scrum Masters, then that interviewer is not at all wrong for wondering if you have enough Scrum experience.

Maybe it was not enough experience working in Agile if you don’t know scrum ceremonies and stuff

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#524

Post by sizzle »

Loranubi wrote: post #332
anchpop wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now new grads feel lowballed at 200k TC As a new grad, was I supposed to feel lowballed at getting an offer quite a bit less than that? I know senior devs who make less than that. Is this just for stanford/mit grads?

Senior devs in my country make around 35k in international companies. Even FAANG is maybe 50k.

What country?! You should demand more?

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#525

Post by n_ary »

Tossrock wrote: post #20

> The general rudeness is ridiculous. I once had an interviewer ask me if I was a wizard with GO, C++, Rust, and C over the phone. Then when I said I had some experience with rust, he immediately cursed at me and hung up. > This experience is fairly common. Is it? I've done a fair bit of interviewing on both sides of the table, and can say with complete honesty I've never heard a curse said in anger in any of them. I…

> [...] had an interviewer ask me if I was a wizard with GO, C++, Rust, and C over the phone.

Didn't this interviewer review/read the CV/Resume before calling?

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#526

Post by renewiltord »

onion2k wrote: post #327
0xB31B1B wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we hired a confident 2 year out bootcamp grad that was able to pass our interview process and he nearly destroyed our company, twice. There is a reason the interview is difficult to pass, being a dev is a job with an insane amount of responsibility, you do not want bad people in there.

you do not want bad people in there It sounds more like your company has failed to implement robust processes to catch mistakes before they're big problems to me. No individual should have the power to destroy the company except maybe a CTO or a lead sysadmin. For everything else important there should be layers of security and QA checks, with automated sanity checks on config and data for really important stuff. If…

Pretty strong disagree on this. I prefer working on teams that optimize for execution speed and just hire people who won’t go up in flames in that environment.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#527

Post by renewiltord »

xlii wrote: post #341
MangoCoffee wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't mind the idea of people paying their dues, and I think I'm better for my experience. Careers aren't supposed to start with you having a big corner office. It is surprising to me how many people feel entitled enough that they truly believe they ought to start at the top. he is trying to pay his dues. its an intern position. at the very low level.

As usual - it depends. FAANG internship is way more valuable than other big names and big names are much more valuable than anonymous web shop hiring 3 people. So if they went directly for big name that isn’t exactly paying their dues.

FAANGs have massive intern support programs and their interviews aren’t usually like this. Interns are the ultimate try before you buy so for orgs with the ability they’re worth it.

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#528

Post by nxpnsv »

ev1 wrote: post #422
johnnyanmac wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a follow up to your edit: I think we agree on what market rate is, but what market rate actually is for tech is subject to a wide variety of answers. So that may be where the discrepancy comes from. that and the article in question giving questionable numbers like: >50-70k is a junior’s salary. Your people with 10 years of experience with C++ or whatever should be paid closer to 300k 50-70K out of school is normal…

Note that 70k for one person in SF is considered low income/needs assistance/basically not a living wage by hud.gov. The bare minimum is somewhere around 90k. At about ~140k for one person, you will still have difficulty renting a single housing unit because you will not be able to meet % of income = rent calculations. I have experience with this (and unrelenting corporate managed rentals charging several hundred in…

Interesting, thanks!

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#529

Post by fpig »

josephg wrote: post #397
ditonal wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically both. When I graduated with my CS degree, I was _thrilled_ to be offered 50k. Now new grads feel lowballed at 200k TC. So hard not to say that the market hasn't adjusted somewhat. At the same time, part of the reason companies even have to pay so much is because they've made interviewing so damn hard. I personally know many people at great companies like Google and Twitter who are _desperate_ to change…

> At the same time, part of the reason companies even have to pay so much is because they've made interviewing so damn hard. I don't agree at all. Pre pandemic I worked as a professional software engineering interviewer for a largish recruiting company. I did 400+ ~2hr interviews over about a year. We did not put forward the vast majority of people I interviewed. Lots of people on HN, and certainly lots of people who…

This pretty much exactly matches my own experience (100+ interviews, not as a professional interviewer but as an engineer who does interviews).

Re: I am sick and tired of hearing tech companies complain about developer shortages

#530

Post by [deleted] »

uyt wrote: post #395
anchpop wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now new grads feel lowballed at 200k TC As a new grad, was I supposed to feel lowballed at getting an offer quite a bit less than that? I know senior devs who make less than that. Is this just for stanford/mit grads?

Most schools have post-graduation survey. Quick google shows mit's 2020 class had 70 bachelor students responding to the survey for jobs in the tech industry, with base salary of: $97,750, $118,000 $129,000 for 25th, 50th, and 75th percentile respectively IIRC this number is typically just the base salary so you can roughly double it to include bonus and stock. Click Employment tab then Page 9 in https://capd.mit.edu…

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