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Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

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Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#521
post #2

Hi! I'm the CEO of MobileCoin. If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask here. We've been working on this project for four years and it has been a labor of love. There's a lot of new technology here. We exist in a highly regulated space so it's possible some questions will require reaching out to lawyers to make sure we answer them in a way that's compliant so please don't feel offended if a response takes…

What are the co2 emissions of mobilecoin usage?

The MobileCoin consensus protocol does not use proof-of-work, so CO2 emissions should be negligible compared to e.g. Bitcoin.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really tired of every single company going through some abusive scam or data harvesting scheme to avoid simply charging me money.

Isn't this because most users have decided that charging money is a death sentence? Hell, there's a HN article on this like every month.

Someone should always take the time to point out to such threads that WhatsApp was running very profitable based on that model without eveb trying.

Also feel free to read anything by the Basecamp guys (yep, the guys behind Rails).

It won't get you or the investors (another) yacht, but there exist a number of companies that delight their customers and change history far more than many attempted unicorns.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a friendly, easy to use chat app with stickers & voice messages (also strong encryption). Except it's not, strong encryption and privacy emphasis goes against easy to use. I recently got my family to switch to Telegram (because I like the interface) - my sister works in an environment where she has to have a separate work phone without a camera and everything synced up out of the box, history, etc. Brother lost his…

> goes against easy to use or just respect reasonable limits? Does it make sense to destroy one feature for the illusion of having both? Elements.io and telegram (to a much lesser extent) are safes. You place something there and it is locked. Signal, whatsapp, et al promise to be safes, but as soon as you place something, a hidden camera scan all the documents and print copies in a hidden printer at your home safe. W…

How is Telegram a ”safe“ but Signal isn‘t? This doesn’t make sense.

Telegram stores all history (except secret chats, which are a pain to use) server-side and effectively unencrypted.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

look at the chart: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/mobilecoin/ the integration with signal made the valuation of mobilecoint jump from around zero to 65$. I hope the signal team got some mobilecoins in return for the favor.

It was $6 two weeks ago. Still a big jump but hardly “zero”.

my initial thought was: why didn't they choose monero (another coin that is privacy-focused but sort of more established). However monero is already much higher than that mark, in its valuation.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#525
I think it's interesting that they do this in the UK. The UK has a bit of a history when it comes to financial innovations. E.g. the first national bank was created there, it's still a major financial center, and it's a country that is very dependent on international trade and literally built the foundations of the modern financial system in the seventeenth century at the same time they took over management of their huge empire. It's no coincidence that those two things happened at the same time. Their new financial system funneled huge amounts of trade through London, which in turn allowed it to go out and conquer the world. Basically they scaled trade by de-risking it. Before banks, you had to move gold around which was slow and exposed you to robbers. After banks happened, you had messengers transferring bills to each other. The Spanish were still shipping (and occasionally losing) tons of silver across the Atlantic at the time and that was their whole premise for their empire.

The UK recently removed themselves from the EU so they are once more in a position where they can play host to new financial instruments and potentially benefit from that. Crypto currencies have the potential to be very disruptive to the modern financial system. Not the worst move for them to allow some experiments to happen in their jurisdiction. If something like this takes off, it has the potential to capture quite a bit of value. If it doesn't work out, it's easy enough to get rid of it.

It's also interesting that particular block chain is based in San Francisco. The SEC is allowing this to happen, apparently (probably for the same opportunistic reasons the British allow this). These MobileCoin guys are well funded apparently and not by means of an ICO but by good old VC cash. VCs are smelling money, that's why this stuff is happening and why the SEC is being a bit hands off here. There are quite a few block chain companies operating in the US actually. There already is quite a bit of VC money locked up in that.

It's also an interesting counter move to Facebook's Libra as well and kind of embarrassing for them that particularly Signal is doing this given that it is backed by one of their former Whatsapp founders. Libra in turn was a counter move to Telegram's plans (yet to materialize) and inspired by China's WeChat.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#526
post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or better yet, don't use cryptocurrency at all. Then you can avoid all ethical dilemmas surrounding them. Problem solved.

But then, you haven't solved the private electronic payment...

Most people don't want private electronic payments. In stable countries like the UK - where this is being launched - it's basically only useful for buying drugs and tax evasion.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#527
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that Telegram storing everything on their servers is very convenient, but: > you don't even sync between active devices I use Signal on a phone and a laptop, switching between the two frequently throughout the day and see the same conversations on both. (Edit: I realised you probably meant multiple phones, yes I see that's not yet supported.) >and you can forget about having old conversations on a ne…

> I use Signal on a phone and a laptop, switching between the two frequently throughout the day and see the same conversations on both. I've had multiple issues with this before I gave up on Signal, it wouldn't show history when I initially paired up even when importing forever, then randomly stopped being connected and required me to pair again (losing everything on PC again) > There's been a manual, secure transfer…

Same experience here. I'm absolutely flabbergasted that the Signal devs decided to implement something like stickers (which, btw, are a pale imitation of what Telegram offers in terms of ease of use and discovery) before they implemented full message sync between devices.

I have a smartphone that I control. I have a desktop computer that I control. I use an application on both computers that lets me send secure messages between device. The application somehow can sync new messages but refuses to let me import old ones. How insane is that? But apparently integrating with cryptocurrencies was above that in the todolist.

Signal is clearly a great protocol, but man is it seriously in need of a great implementation...

>But Marlinspike and Goldbard counter that Signal's new features won't give it any control of MobileCoin or turn it into a MobileCoin exchange, which might lead to more regulatory scrutiny. Instead, it will merely add support for spending and receiving it.

Oh, that's going to be a recipe for a great user experience again. You can send MobileCoin super easily... after you've gone on some crypto exchange platform to trade a highly speculative asset into one of your wallets. It's basically like Venmo indeed.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#528

This is one of the primary benefits of a messaging client that uses Matrix [1], if one app becomes undesirable there are dozens of compatible apps! [2] I highly recommend giving Element [3] a try - it's polished and easy for non technical people to use, end-to-end encrypted and OSS. [1]: https://matrix.org/ [2]: https://matrix.org/clients/ [3]: https://element.io

I like and use Element, but the crypto workflow is way too complicated for non technical users and the UX is nowhere near what's app or Telegram.

I have more hope for other clients like Fluffychat.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#529
post #436
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why use Signal at all? You had to have KYC to get a phone number in most countries which you had to give to Signal which could expose your location etc via tower pings to anyone you communicate with unless you port it to a VoIP number (how many know how to do that?) You also had to provide a phone number to get a Google or Apple account to install Signal because anonymous signed install methods are not supported…

>You also had to provide a phone number to get a Google or Apple account to install Signal because anonymous signed install methods are not supported, which moxie says is intentional to collect analytics. Signal distributes a standalone APK for android, which does function without google play services. https://signal.org/android/apk/

Functions != secure.

You must turn on Untrusted Sources which disables meaningful signature verification.

Now you must hope you don't get MITMed every time you update.

It is a joke they seriously expect people to sideload.

They need to provide a deterministic and easily auditable F-Deoid repo or let the F-Droid team compile/sign it for them.

Neither will happen though because moxie has been very open about the fact he wants the analytics that comes with google/apple tracked installs, user privacy be damned.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#530

Putting people's privacy in danger with fake privacy coins is a devastating error. Mobilecoin is a scam. The only private cryptocurrency that works is Monero. I now can only believe Signal has sick motives or is a honeypot. Extremely sad since I even convinced my family to use it but now I will turn away.

Not quite true; zcash is best-of-breed and works well. Dead on for this being a devastating error though. I regret advocating Signal, and this destroys Moxie's credibility in my eyes. A shame, because the Signal team did good work to bring strong encrypted communications to the masses. Instead of focusing on fixing usability, stability, and group messaging that scales, they push this in (which nobody asked for) just to make a few people rich through network effects.

Mobilecoin is a pre-mined Monero rip-off (that Moxie has clear links to) with centralised Ripple-esque consensus, and puts UK Signal users into uncharted regulatory waters. Downright sleazy.

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