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The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

stephendiehl.com

521–530 of 630 posts

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#521
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people's money starts losing value, the last thing they would do is to be concerned with interest rates. With less valuable money, people would simply be able to afford a smaller consumption basket and, thus, spending will stay flat & consumption will decrease. If your money starts losing value, do you A) put it under the mattress or B) trade it for things that you can either use now or that retain/grow their va…

> If your money starts losing value, do you A) put it under the mattress or B) trade it for things that you can either use now or that retain/grow their value in the future? It depends on the situation. For example, if one lives paycheck to paycheck or close to that, then I don't see how they would not put a bit "under the mattress" (emergency fund) and spend the rest on basic needs. There is only so much food one ca…

> On the other hand, if income >> costs, that's a totally different story ...

I'm looking at excess capital used for funding loans, business, etc. So I'm more focused on this case. I take you point that inflation eats up ~2% of cash savings yearly, and that it's a bigger deal the less wealthy you are.

> it is a very diplomatic way of avoiding touching the core of the income inequality issue.

I'd say that deflation is much worse for income inequality, since sitting on cash becomes profitable, so the people who can afford to do it the longest win out.

I don't think either inflation or deflation will solve income inequality. I think that's controlled by taxation of capital gains vs. income. Specifically, the lower capital gains tax, and the ability to sit on unrealized capital gains without paying taxes on them in the mean time.

> For example, if a TV model A costs $200 and model B costs $2000, it is not just because they "represent [different] goods produced", but because model B is much more expensive to produce and/or it has much more added value [real and/or perceived] than model A.

I think where we're diverging is:

- You're comparing two different goods produced at the same time. - I'm comparing two identical goods produced at different times.

So if you make a baguette in 1921 and sell it for 5$, and then try and buy a baguette in 2021, it should cost 5$, despite the fact that the amount of energy/work it takes to produce a baguette in 2021 is much lower than in 1921. The money represents the value of the end good, not the work that went into producing it. And so if the good becomes cheaper to produce over time, you'd want to inflate the cost of it to keep it level.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#522
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main premise of the article is that cryptocurrencies are "speculation for speculation’s sake," i.e. gambling, and that's bad. Also, the article claims that they contribute to inequality. The green stuff is basically a side note. I don't think it's a terribly strong case but I suppose it depends on whether you agree that crypto is gambling and if you think gambling should banned. Anyway, I think lots of people stu…

There is speculative trading in stocks and bonds, but not as frequently. It is a choice that a trader can make, though and hasn't been regulated away. I have no problem with government regulation on Cryptocurrency for speculation if the same laws effect the trading of stacks and bonds. The "green" issue of Crypto mining is a harder regulatory issue for our government to get involved in, though. While on the one hand,…

Stocks are usually shares of a company with assets. Assets that can be sold off to pay back shareholders when things go sideways.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty damn incoherent. > the core reason for cryptocurrencies; escaping inflation and control Maybe in a whitepaper. In the real world, it's mostly about speculation and enabling crime. > Law and order stands on the backs of a lot of stuff and CO2. Bitcoin is an example of one little piece of this not needing all that stuff. Ok...? This is nonsensical. > Instead it's protected by this mining fleet. And if yo…

> Maybe in a whitepaper. In the real world, it's mostly about speculation and enabling crime. That’s the same line authoritarian governments used to demonize encrypted communications.

[deleted]

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty damn incoherent. > the core reason for cryptocurrencies; escaping inflation and control Maybe in a whitepaper. In the real world, it's mostly about speculation and enabling crime. > Law and order stands on the backs of a lot of stuff and CO2. Bitcoin is an example of one little piece of this not needing all that stuff. Ok...? This is nonsensical. > Instead it's protected by this mining fleet. And if yo…

The real reason why anyone I know wants cryptocurrencies is to escape inflation and control. The US financial system will collapse, it's not a matter of if but when. You can choose hyperinflation, government seizing assets, government declaring bankruptcy, or cryptocurrency.

I want what you’re smoking.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#525

This article seems to intentionally ignore the core reason for cryptocurrencies; escaping inflation and control. The article then proposes to use the law to bring those people back within the control of fiat and government oversight. I no longer think the environmental argument is really plausible here. Clearly crypto mining is emitting using a lot of power and some of that is CO2. But the competition is fiat; backed…

Why does it make a difference whether your wealth is denoted by USD, Bitcoin, milk caps, or Rai Stones? If tanks roll over your capital city and your countrymen are made to kneel in a row, what good is it that you can refuse to give up the private keys? And how does the medium of exchange have any bearing on nations going to war over control of oil, rare earth minerals, strategic islands? It seems to me you're implyi…

> Why does it make a difference whether your wealth is denoted by USD, Bitcoin, milk caps, or Rai Stones? If tanks roll over your capital city and your countrymen are made to kneel in a row, what good is it that you can refuse to give up the private keys?

The soldiers lining up your countrymen and shooting them in the head so they fall into a ditch become the new owners of your countrymen's USD and milk caps, but not their Bitcoin or rai stones. This kind of thing (the "pillaging" part of "raping and pillaging") is historically a major incentive for going to war.

> If tanks roll over your capital city and your countrymen are made to kneel in a row, what good is it that you can refuse to give up the private keys?

If your seed phrase is erased from your brain by a bullet, it probably doesn't do you much good. But it will completely change your life if you manage to escape: a refugee with pockets full of gold is observably different from a destitute pauper; a refugee who has memorized two seed phrases is not observably different from a refugee who has memorized only one. That's the difference between starting a new life as a homeless beggar and buying a country estate to retire on.

> the colossal environmental damage inherent to a Bitcoin-driven world economy

You seem to be begging the question here; why should we expect a Bitcoin-driven world economy to produce colossal environmental damage? Mining Bitcoin with fossil-fuel energy is unprofitable, so we should expect Bitcoin to produce a colossal shift to cheaper renewable energy, which may reverse the colossal environmental damage caused by fossil fuels. Or it may not.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#526
post #5

I think the main premise of this article is the fact that crypto's carbon emission is insane, especially Bitcoin, which I agree (I don't hold Bitcoin for this exact reason). But there are many other crypto that uses Proof of Stake, way way greener than Proof of Work, such as Cardano. Even Ethereum is transitioning to Proof of Stake. This article should be re-titled "The Political Case for a Blanket Proof of Work Ban"…

Monero, Ravencoin, and Tether use a proof-of-work function that requires CPUs and defeats GPUs and ASICs, so there is an argument to be made that perhaps there is a slightly greener proof-of-work function. I don't quite understand how their function RandomX works, it requires a VM, lots of memory, and randomly generated work functions that need to be translated by the VM. Been hunting for a good page to explain this,…

While that is the aim, I don’t find it convincing. Sure, the average person can mine, but the hashrate will be small compared to professionals with tens of thousands of units, purchased at special rates for bulk, with matching low energy rates. Or free energy in the case of botnet operators.

In practice this just degrades to a situation very similar to ASICs, admittedly with the benefit that the hardware has a purpose beyond mining and with multiple (uninterested) manufacturers. In that way it is perhaps more decentralized, while also open to additional vulnerabilities. All in all it’s mostly just a way to differentiate from btc on a theoretical point rather than have any real advantage.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real reason why anyone I know wants cryptocurrencies is to escape inflation and control. The US financial system will collapse, it's not a matter of if but when. You can choose hyperinflation, government seizing assets, government declaring bankruptcy, or cryptocurrency.

I want what you’re smoking.

[deleted]

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This article should be re-titled "The Political Case for a Blanket Proof of Work Ban". I don't see the difference between that and "The Political Case for a Blanket Cryptocurrency Ban". The outcome is the same. Etherium has not proven proof of stake can work at scale. If it does that will be great. But it's no certain thing and it'll probably mean more Eth forks like Eth classic. Most other cryptocurrencies are tied…

To say that "Etherium has not proven proof of stake can work at scale" is true but means not a whole lot. Since it implies other's haven't. Cardano, as an example, will be 100% decentralized Proof of Stake within the next few hours. I see no reason at this point for bitcoins existence but the technology that's being built on top of blockchains is fascinating and shouldn't be condemned for something that bitcoin can't…

It's disingenuous, or confusing to me at least, to present Cardano, a cryptocurrency started in 2017 I haven't even heard of, as proving the same thing as real used and tested cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin or Etherium.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#529
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its odd that I can drop a hundred grand at the Venetian, but not in a mates start-up.

You can't? In what jurisdiction? I dropped ten grand in a mate's (UK) startup a couple of years ago and all we needed was an accountant to formalise the transaction and issue me a share certificate.

In the US you need to be very rich to do this as you need to be an "accredited investor" which means either millions in the bank or work with a Wall Street bank to get a license to invest. Normal people are prevented from investing until most of the alpha is gone.

Re: The political case for a blanket cryptocurrency ban

#530
post #492

This is typical anti-bitcoin rhetoric, it’s nothing new and not completely unfounded, but the author lacks any awareness of the true value of crypto currencies, makes no mention of proof of stake, and assumes that speculation somehow justifies outlawing trading because it’s now gambling. A few points: There are some interesting and somewhat out there justifications for the energy use, and there are a couple very simp…

>> no good argument or replacement for this

Should be:

>> no good argument against, or replacement for this

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